The Just Checking In Podcast
The Just Checking In Podcast is another step in VENT’s mission to give people a voice, change the conversation around mental health and provide an outlet where everyone, but especially men and boys, can express themselves. In each pod we check in with a special guest. We have a natter and a chat about all things mental health as well as anything and everything else they're passionate about. If it helps that person with their mental health, we'll discuss it!
The Just Checking In Podcast
JCIP #375 - Arthur Colquhoun
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In episode 375 of The Just Checking In Podcast we checked in with Arthur Colquhoun.
Arthur is the Founder of YES Club, an invite-only network for London’s mission-led, early-stage founders. They host intimate, highly curated in-person experiences built for depth, peer learning, and meaningful connection.
He is also the Founder’s Associate of The Fifth, who bill themselves as “a high-performance members club for ambitious professionals who work hard, value their health, and want to be part of a purpose-led community.”
The Fifth is being designed as an integrated hub combining focused workspace, wellness and fitness facilities, and community-led experiences to help members perform better in work and life.
At the moment, Arthur splits his time between YES Club, The Fifth and he has just founded his own community and events agency.
In this episode we discuss his professional journey first, which started in 2023 after he graduated from Manchester University.
He then joined a mental health start-up called Talk Life, went travelling for six months in 2024, moved to London in September of that year and joined another start up called UNTIL. He then started YES Club in June 2025.
He then met a fellow entrepreneur called Dan, who was the Founder at The Fifth, and they have been building the business since then.
For Arthur’s mental health journey, we discuss his childhood, where he grew up with family members who had severe mental health difficulties.
At 17 years old Arthur had his first panic attack, and had anxiety for the next six years after that.
His recovery started through him adding different tools to his mental toolbox which worked for him. This included improving his mindset, taking himself out of his comfort zone and putting himself into challenging scenarios.
As a people-pleaser, he also learned the importance of putting in healthy boundaries and saying no, and we discuss how he’s practiced that and been consistent with it going forward now.
As always, #itsokaytovent
Support Us:
Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of the Just Tech In Podcast. I'm your host, Freddie Cocker, and this podcast is brought to you by Vent, a place where everyone, but especially men and boys, can open up about their mental health issues, break down stigmas, and start conversations. In each episode, I check in with a special guest. We have an attor and a chat about all things mental health, as well as anything and everything else they are passionate about. If it helps that person with their mental health, we discussed it. In this episode, I'm checking in with Arthur Colcahoon. Arthur is the founder of Yes Club, an invite-only network for London's mission-led early stage founders. They host intimate, highly curated in-person experiences built for depth, peer learning, and meaningful connection. He is also the founder's associate of the Fifth, who build themselves as a high-performance members club for ambitious professionals who work hard, value their health, and want to be part of a purpose-led community. To be clear, Arthur is not the co-founder but is the Fifth's first paid employee. And at the time of recording, he works for them on a part-time basis. The Fifth is being designed as an integrated hub, combining focused workspace, wellness and fitness facilities, and community-led experiences to help members perform better in work and life. Now, whilst I have my scepticism and criticisms of the wellness space in how it has pushed some stigmatised mental health conversations to the side, there is still a space for it. And Arthur is doing some great work through these organizations in building bridges, helping entrepreneurs find connection, community, and a support network. At the moment, Arthur splits his time between Yes Club, the fifth, and a community and events agency he has just founded. In this episode, we discussed his professional journey first, which started in 2023 after he graduated from Manchester University and moved to Bristol, where he joined a mental health startup called Talk Life. He then went travelling for six months in 2024, moving to London in September of that year, and joined another startup called Until. And then he started Yes Club as a side hustle in June 2025. He then met a fellow entrepreneur called Dan, who was the founder at The Fifth, and they have been building the business together since then. For Arthur's mental health journey, we discussed his childhood where he grew up with family members who had severe mental health difficulties. At 17 years old, Arthur had his first panic attack and had anxiety on and off for the next six years after that moment. His recovery came through adding different tools to his mental toolbox, which worked for him, including therapy, improving his mindset, taking himself out of his comfort zone and putting himself into challenging scenarios, thereby regaining his confidence through those. As a people pleaser in recovery, he's also learned the importance of putting in healthy boundaries and saying no. And we discussed how he's practiced that and been consistent with it going forward. So this is how my conversation with Arthur Colcahoon went. Arthur, welcome to the Just Checking In Pod. Thank you so much for letting me check in with you, mate. When I came across you on LinkedIn, I was really interested in the work you're doing with the Fifth and Yes Club. I can thank Friend of the Pod, Lewis Baxter's algorithm, for sending you my way. How are you on this Sunday morning, brother? We've both just been for a run, so a little bit sweaty, the listeners can't see, but hopefully we are nice and cool now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, doing very well. I've actually had a couple of weird weeks of being a bit out of my usual routine. I was ill for a bit and it was my first long run in a bit this morning. So it feels good to have gone for a nice run outside. But yeah, it's definitely a little bit humorous.
SPEAKER_01Very much so. Yeah, I can't think of what's worse to be ill when it's cold or be ill when it's hot. Definitely when it's hot. I live in a tiny one-bedroom flat.
SPEAKER_02The last couple of weeks it's literally been 35 degrees in our flat. It has been a sauna. So I'd say definitely worse being hot and ill.
SPEAKER_01We had a lovely chat off air, mate, and I was pleasantly surprised by how young you are given what you've achieved so far and will do as well in the future. So without further ado, are you ready to start the show and talk all about your amazing journey? Let's get into it. Very excited.
SPEAKER_02And yeah, first I just want to say I think it's awesome what you're doing. And yeah, mental health is something that I'm passionate about. So it was really, yeah, it was really exciting when you came across and reached out, and yeah, looking forward to getting into it.
SPEAKER_01We're gonna start your podcast, Arthur, by talking about your professional journey first, as is the reason we're chatting today. So take me back to the start, you graduated from the University of Manchester in 2023 with a BA in politics and modern history, like me, but without the history. Uh, why did you decide to move to Bristol and join a mental health startup called Talk Life and what services did it provide?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I guess first it'd say politics and history, they were my two favourite subjects at school, but being completely honest, during university didn't really know what I was going to go on to do next. And I chose politics and history because they're my two favourite subjects at school, but I kind of knew that I probably wasn't going to go into politics or history. And I never really felt like a natural academic, and I kind of always got my fulfillment from doing projects outside of the classroom. And when I was at university, it was quite a weird time to be a student because it was the kind of peak of the COVID pandemic. It was very weird. So first year, you know, it was high school COVID 2020, and everything was locked down. So, you know, I didn't even know what the university looked like. There was no lectures, there was no societies. Everyone just stayed in their flats, in their halls, and basically just partied because it was the only thing that anyone could do. And and yeah, I kind of went through this period during university where I wasn't really looking after myself. I always kind of had a bit of an all-or-nothing attitude and was burning kind of candle at both ends, and yeah, just not really looking after myself. And I went through, you know, a bit of a yeah, I guess a big transition personally, which I'm sure we'll kind of get into in a bit during university, which kind of enlightened me about, you know, the power of health and wellness. And it kind of triggered this passion for you know mental health and specifically. And when I left university, I was really keen to join a startup and just to use my kind of own entrepreneurial ambitions. A lot of my friends were moving to London, but I wanted to move to another city, go somewhere a bit smaller, and I'd never really experienced Bristol. And both me and my girlfriend thought it could be quite a nice place to check out. There was an opportunity there to join a company called Talk Life as an SDR sales rep. And yeah, it sounded really interesting, so I kind of jumped onto it and to give you a bit more information about the company. It's called Talk Life, and it effectively incredible organization had this kind of big public platform which anyone could go onto, which effectively gave people 24-7 peer support and a kind of platform to express themselves anonymously and receive support from people instantly. But then they also had these kind of sub-platforms, and the one that I worked under was called Talk Campus, where we effectively sold this mental health platform to universities and colleges from around the UK and America, and then they would then give it to their students for free so that they had a you know a platform that they could use 24-7 to receive peer support, but there was also a clinical health line and mental health resources, etc. So, yeah, incredible platform. I was personally selling into the Midwest of the US, so these very kind of old-fashioned religious colleges. Some of them were a bit like, what's mental health? It was a good experience because it kind of got me stuck into the kind of nitty-gritty of sales quite quickly. And I was, you know, cold cooling quite quickly and had my own territory that I was um approaching. And and yeah, it was incredible. It was incredible to have the opportunity to try and provide something to students that you know they might have not been able to access before that you know genuinely did make a difference because you know their platform would genuinely save lives. So um it was an incredible first chance.
SPEAKER_01Given what you had experienced with your first university stint in Manchester, mate, although obviously you weren't burning the candle at both ends in Bristol, did it feel like almost like a second buyer, the cherry to have that authentic university experience, but without the academia basically? Yeah, so in Bristol, so I was just working there and living there.
SPEAKER_02So we yeah, we were obviously working, you know, it was a business that helped other universities. You know, it did feel like a fresh start. I was a completely different person um starting moving to Bristol than I was when I first moved to Manchester.
SPEAKER_01You then leave that role, you go travelling for six months from January 2024 to July 2024. I imagine you did all the MPC traveller activities. You found yourself, you came back in September 2024, you moved to London. Why did you make that move? And how did the opportunity come about to join another organisation called Until?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so it was really interesting. So I'd always wanted to go travelling, and again, because of COVID, it all kind of got a little bit messed up. So it was almost like a bit of the delayed gap here that both me and my girlfriend did together, and obviously amazing, and feel very lucky to have had the opportunity to do it. And it's funny because the whole time we were out there, I was adamant that I was going to move back to Bristol. I really enjoyed Bristol and I thought it was such a nice little city, and I for some reason really had it in my head that London was potentially a bit of a distraction for my kind of ambitions because all of my friends were in London. You know, I was just a bit naive and silly, and I just had this kind of weird, you know, and I think it was partly because of my own experience in London. So I actually spent a bit of time growing up in London and my family went through quite a difficult period when we lived there. And then I also, just after I finished school, I worked in London for a little bit before I moved to Manchester and again had a really horrible experience. So I think I was a bit scarred from my previous experiences in London, and it and that kind of paints this picture to me that London was this big, unfriendly, expensive place. And I was a bit like, why'd I move there if I'm not inaccurate to be fair, mate? But I was a bit like, why'd I move there if I don't have any money? So there's this part of me that was like, surely go back to Bristol, lock in, kind of progress in my career a little bit, and kind of be away from the distractions. Anyway, what I realized when I was near the end of my travel is actually when I was looking at jobs and looking at the market, which obviously, you know, is difficult at the moment. And, you know, a lot of the opportunities that excited me the most were in London. And I suddenly had this realisation where I was like, it's actually not going to help with my ambitions not moving to London. It's not the distraction piece, it's actually the opportunity piece. And if there's all of these entrepreneurs and cool businesses in London, then I should be in London. I should try and be as close to them as possible. It is bonkers. I mean, me and my girlfriend are going through the moment where we're looking at, you know, potentially moving to another flat a bit closer to central London, and it's just, you know, it it feels bonkers to be paying £2,500 for a small one-bedroom flat near central London and seeing that you could get a five-bedroom house in the other part of the country.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, and in terms of coming across Lund Hill, I had a month of just relentless job applications. So I applied to hundreds of jobs, I did loads of job interviews, and 100% got to that point where I was like, wow, this is hard. But I'm actually really grateful for that period because I learned so much from those job interviews. I've given advice to a few people about just the interview process genuinely, because I I learned so much during that period. And Until was just a job that I came across on LinkedIn and I applied. And the interesting thing about it was that the actual role that they were advertising, I wasn't interested in. So the way I got my foot in the door was actually applying for almost like a receptionist role at one of their clubs. And I guess to give it a bit of context, Until is effectively almost like a we work for health and wellness professionals. So it's got these sites across London. Each site, they're quite extraordinary. They have a gym, dentistry clinics, medical rooms, treatment rooms, therapy rooms, and there's a community of dentists, doctors, personal trainers that are a member of UNTIL and run their freelance businesses out of the UNTIL sites. And it's a Stephen Bartlett-backed company. It was very attractive to me because it kind of aligns my three core passions, which were entrepreneurship, because all of the members were entrepreneurs, they're running their own businesses. It was a health and wellness startup, and it also was a business built on community. That was the USP. So it was very well aligned. But the actual role I applied for, I wasn't really interested in. I wanted to go into sales. But I was like, because it's so well aligned, I might as well give it a go. So I went through the first round, which was the cool VHR team. I then met the SOHO team, which was the club that I was applying for. And then the final set was a call with the CEO and the managing director. And it's funny how job interviews work. You know, obviously, I went through this period where just nothing was coming off, and then I suddenly got a job offer from one company, and then I got another job offer. And I went into this until interview with two job interviews in the bank. And it's funny how it obviously then just gives you this confidence. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go all out on this interview and basically just tell them that you know I think the company's perfect for me, that I would be you know better suited in a sales role. And I did that, yeah. Brave man. Yeah, felt very grateful and happy when yeah, I've got a call a week later and they yeah, they basically said that they wanted to offer me a position for a role that you know didn't exist at the time, but just because they felt like it was such an aligned opportunity.
SPEAKER_01In June 2025, you start your own side hustle called Yes Club, which you describe as an invite-only network for London's mission-led early stage founders. So, why did you take the leap to start something for yourself, mate, and create this, I guess, exclusive networking club for entrepreneurs too? And also, what was the inspiration behind the name? Two very good questions.
SPEAKER_02See, I guess in terms of the first one, I had always wanted to start my own business. You know, when I was working at Until, I was really enjoying it, but I had this massive itch to do my own thing in some kind of capacity. And when I moved to London, I went through, I guess, a transition where I was like, I really want to border my network, I really want to meet other ambitious people doing interesting things. Because I think, you know, a lot of people go through that transition growing up where you've got your great friends from home, but everyone just, you know, starts going on such different paths. And, you know, I think especially when you're in your 20s, like there's a lot of people that, you know, are yeah, playing a bit harder than they're working. And I was like, I really want to meet other people that really are ambitious and are building things and just making the most out of their lives, I guess. And went to loads of different networking events in London, trying to meet new people, and on the whole, found them very underwhelming. And I was a little bit baffled because I'd always hosted loads of events growing up, and I just couldn't believe that you know, these were the events in London, and a lot of them felt quite transactional, quite shallow, very hit or miss. You know, a lot of the time you'd be at one just thinking, oh, I should be at bed right now. What am I doing here on a Tuesday evening? And I always thought there must be a better way. And kind of at the same time as doing this, I was reaching out to people on LinkedIn, early stage founders, to meet them for coffees. And this is something that I would always recommend is just trying to connect with people that are a couple of steps ahead of where you want to go and just meeting them for coffees. I met quite a few early stage founders kind of just before setting up the Yes Club. And I, yeah, weirdly through doing that, realized that there was an opportunity to crave something for people that were building businesses and were really in the thick of it, who are obviously some of the most time poor people on the planet, and going to a shitty networking event can be, yeah, obviously a b a big waste of their time. And I felt like there was an opportunity to build something to bring those types of founders together away from the noise, to connect on a deeper, more meaningful level, and kind of come away from my experiences with really meaningful relationships and really just leverage the power of peer support, which is something that I learned, you know, I kind of took from my first stints at Talk Life. And I'm a huge believer in the power of just learning from other people's experiences, other people's mistakes, and connecting with people at similar parts of your journey. I think it's one of the most powerful things in the world. And I think the people around young entrepreneurs, their kind of early network and their environment, I genuinely think it is one of the biggest differentiators between the founders that make it through the early stages and the founders that don't. So I wanted to create an environment that helps purpose-led founders make it through those hardest and most difficult stages of building a business.
SPEAKER_01If you had to give a top five, mate, what have been some of the most profound learnings you've taken from people you've connected with? And what have been some of the most profound learnings that you've had from running Yes Club so far yourself?
SPEAKER_02That's a very good question. Um I think number one is that it's something that you hear the whole time. That first step is really difficult. Starting is really difficult. I procrastinated on the Yes Club for so long. You know, when I was traveling, I'd come up with the idea basically, and you know, it took me what yeah, a good eight, nine months to, you know, to do the first event. And to be fair, like I had started a new job, and that was taking a lot of my energy out until that I procrastinated for ages, and all really what I had to do was just put the first event. And I spent time building pitch sets, like you know, kind of researching the market, like doing all of this work, which really was just procrastinating for making the first action, got given a really good bit of advice just before I made the plan to set up the Esclub on someone who was just like and it sounds simple, but it's weird how you know, just sometimes that bit of advice just hits you at the perfect moment. And this guy called Peter, who was one of the kind of founders that I connected with when I moved to London, we had a call and he was just like, mate, just book the first event. He was like, literally, just book the first venue. Once you book the first venue, you've got to do it. He was like, I'll help you fill that event with my network. Like, just book it. Like, what is stopping you from just going and booking it? And that was the nudge I needed to get things off the ground. And it's crazy how that first step, once you do that first step, I was shitting it for my first event. It was a massive step out of my comfort zone, you know, hosting an event with 16 entrepreneurs. There was obviously imposter centrale because I was like, I haven't built a business yet. Why am I hosting a dinner with all of these entrepreneurs that have businesses? But it's just doing that first step. And my bit of advice and learning is like, how can you make that first step as frictionless as possible? You know, how can you make that first step so small that it's impossible not to do? And I think it's very easy to get overwhelmed by the bigger picture and spend all of this time planning stuff out rather than just making that first little action that just gets you going. So I think that was a big learning. And then, and I guess just the second one off the top of that is you realize, I think when you're looking from the outside, you kind of look at all of these people on LinkedIn that, you know, have big personal brands and are building a business, and you think, wow, like that's so impressive. Like, you know, I wish I was doing that. Like, wow, they must be amazing. And I think another big realization is they're all just normal people. Like, it's so funny. And I think that also really hits home because it makes you realize, oh, if that person can do that, then I can do it too. They're all obviously brilliant and they're very brave. And I think that's sort of a trait that all entrepreneurs need to have. They need to have the courage to just give it a go and put their reputation on the line. But at the end of the day, all very normal people making mistakes like every other person, not really knowing what they're doing, just pushing themselves out of their comfort zone. And I think that's quite a liberating realization because it just kind of shows we all can do it. We're all capable of building something and making an impact in some kind of way.
SPEAKER_01Very quickly, because you've only given me two there, three more very quickly.
SPEAKER_02Running events is hard, and I've done a few collaborations with people, and I think sometimes people that don't run events underestimate how many people you actually need to reach out to to fill out events. And yeah, filling events with people that are incredibly busy is difficult and it requires you know a lot of time and outreach. That's one learning. I think some people think that if they've got 20 friends that are entrepreneurs, they can host a dinner and they'll all come. And I think in reality, you know, half of them are busy, some of them are at a wedding, some of them are on holiday, and you end up not filling it with any of them. So that's one. I'd say another one is just the power of digital detox. It's such a small touch of kind of yes club experience. But each of them we all hand our phones in a box. And it's funny because it's always one of the things that gets the most positive feedback, and I think it's because it's something that entrepreneurs just aren't used to doing. They're always used to having their phones on them, they're spending 17, 18 hours a day glued to a screen. And there is something so powerful about just switching your phone off even for a few hours and putting in a box and really just being present in the moment. There's been some really interesting research about how even having your phone in your pocket, you know, while speaking to Someone can distract me from being present. So I'd say the power of digital detox is let me real. And then the final um I think a bit of advice I got from Lewis actually, which really stuck with me just before setting up the S Bebble. Maybe it was after my first event. He was like, just take it one dinner at a time. He was like, I know lots of people like you that try to build the community for early stage founders, and he said, None of them are still going, they've all failed. Like podcasts, mate.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00I'm the only one left.
SPEAKER_02And he was like, I think that the mistake that people usually make is they get so carried away about scaling the concept that they move too fast and they quickly lose the magic of whatever's made their thing special in the first place. So he was just like, if are you, just go slow, just take it one dinner at a time, one event at a time, and just see where it takes you. And I think that, you know, especially in the early days, was really good advice. I think now I'm beginning to think a bit more about the bigger picture, but I think during the beginning, that is really, really valuable advice.
SPEAKER_01When you were speaking there about Peter's advice, it gave me sort of two mantras in my head. One was Nike's Just Do It, and the other was a mantra that Alistair Campbell, I think, used as part of his work with Portland, his PR consolidy, which was just send the fucking email.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's crazy though how something so simple like that actually can be so hard. And I think you know, there can be so much psychological baggage on a situation like that. And I genuinely think that it all comes down to kind of courage, bravery, and fear. And I think, you know, the vast majority of people that don't shoot their goals is because of fear, you know, the fear of judgment, the fear of failure, the fear of embarrassment, rejection, whatever that might be. And I think, you know, the one probably most common traits that entrepreneurs have is that ability to kind of look at fear in the face and just give it a go. And I think when you give it a go, the consequence is never as bad as you build it up to be in your head. It's difficult making that first step. And I think the only advice that I would give is just you've got to try and make that first step as tiny as possible, like sending that email.
SPEAKER_01The biggest development in your career so far, and it's the reason we are chatting today, is your work as founder's associate of something called the Fifth, which is a new private members club for quote professionals who work hard, value their health, and want to be part of a purpose-led community. So it wasn't your baby, but you've come in quite early at the start of it. How did you get involved and what was the inspiration behind the name as well?
SPEAKER_02That's just made me realise that I didn't actually tell you about the inspiration behind the S Club. But yeah, so in terms of the fit, I came across Dan, who's the founder from about a year ago. Um, again, he was someone that I just reached out to via LinkedIn. A lot of the connections I've made have come from cold outreach from LinkedIn. So that's how we connected to. So yeah, definitely a powerful channel. And we just met for a copy and we got on really well. And just to give a bit of context about Dan, he ran a business called WhiFitness, I think for about 15 years, which is yeah, a kind of business in the fitness space, which he ended up selling. And he had kind of come out of that, and he was doing a few kind of advising gigs, kind of helping a few other startups in the health and wellness space. But he'd had this idea for the fifth, which was effectively a members club that brought together fitness with co-working into a very integrated environment. And we just got on really well, and you know, I thought it was a really good idea, and you know, we chatted about it for a bit, and then we met up for a few more coffees. At the time, I was working full-time at Untills, so I was committed to that. But you know, fast forward six months later, my situation at Untill changed, and you know, he kind of made a decision to go all in on setting up the fitness's next venture, and yeah, you know, kind of stars aligned for me to join as yeah, I guess employee number one, initially on a part-time basis, and just help bring the concept to life. And and yeah, something that feels very aligned to my background, aligned with my passions, and I think it's a massive opportunity. There's obviously been a huge boom in flexible and remote working since COVID. There's workspaces everywhere. There's obviously been a boom in health and wellness, and people prioritizing their health more than ever, spending more of their income on health and wellness more than ever. So you have all of these gyms and health club concepts all over the place. But there aren't really any solutions in the UK at the moment that really put both together into one integrated solution. And there's a few in the US that are doing quite well that have popped up over the last few years. And I think there's a huge opportunity in the UK, but then globally. And I think that you know, me and Dan together are two people that are quite well equipped to give it a crack, basically.
SPEAKER_01I want to talk about sort of pros and cons of the health and wellness space around the fifth here, mate. So I want to talk about pros first. What's your USP here? Like, what makes you different from, like you said, all the other gyms, Pilates studios, wellness organizations popping up and operating right now?
SPEAKER_02So I think the differentiator is going to be the community and it's going to be the culture. I've spent a lot of time these last few months since I left Until working flexible, working from home, working from co-working spaces, working from cafes. And I've tried a few co-working spaces, and we also used a couple at Until. And there are good co-working spaces, don't get me wrong, there's a lot of co-working spaces that feel really nice and a premium, but a lot of them are quite soulless. And I think a lot of them people come in, they plug in, they do their work, and they leave, which is obviously, you know, it's fine, and that works for a lot of people.
SPEAKER_01It's not really a co-working space, is it? That's just an office and another name.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. But that is how they work. And what I think the opportunity is, is curating the membership. So it's based on values. And for us, the kind of three core things are going to be ambition. So building something, whether that's you know, you being an entrepreneur or in a startup or a freelancer, whatever that means, that you care about your work and you're building something and you're passionate about building something. The second thing will be health and wellness. You know, that is going to be the heartbeat of the fifth, and it will kind of be shown in our facilities, you know, in terms of having a gym, having classes, having ice bark, having saunas, etc. But, you know, we will also, you know, attract people that have a passion for health and wellness. And then the final thing is community. And I think, you know, you want to bring people that actually value community and are going to contribute to the community and see the value and being in a collaborative environment of people that help each other and want to help each other grow. And that's what I think the opportunity is. I think it's creating a membership where there are core values that attach everybody together in that membership, and then using that to run invents, you know, initiatives that really create a special environment that people wake up and feel excited to go into, you know, and go to work and be around amazing people and do their workouts and get some stuff done and go to an amazing event in that evening. So I think that will really be the differentiator, I think, is how do we create that culture, how do we create that community that's different to other members' clubs? I think just the members' club point just generally is an interesting one to touch on because obviously we've kind of flirted into basic with the idea of even positioning the FIFA as the members' club because obviously, you know, members' clubs, it has a connotation, right? Like a lot of people think of members' clubs as somewhere that's very exclusive, very private, and built on you know on status. And I think that's something that we want to really be careful that you know we position ourselves away from. And it's something that both me and Dan were really passionate about, is that we create a community of interesting, ambitious people, but most importantly, people that don't have an ego. And that is really, really important to us. We want to create an environment where no matter whether you're a CEO of a business that's turning over 10 million pounds, or whether you're, you know, someone completely different doing something in a completely different space, everyone is treated as an equal, and there is no people with big egos, you know, in the site. And that that is going to be a big fundamental for what we build. And then I think finally is the integration, right? You know, you've got lots of gyms and fitness spaces, you've got lots of workspaces. It's, you know, how do we create an environment which really integrates that all together and creates a space where people really can go in and get all their needs. And I think, especially for ambitious people who are very busy, you know, running around London towards gyms and getting changed and go back to workspace and going over here for a meeting and then going over there for an event, it can become quite taxing. It can create friction for you actually doing the things that make you feel good. At the moment, for example, when I'm really busy, my workout can go out of the window just because I just don't have the capacity to do it in the day. And I genuinely think an environment like the fifth will help people unlock their full potential because you'll be doing your work on your desk and you'll literally be able to see the lunchtime class in front of you, and it will just be that much easier for you to just jump into it and get your workout done that day. So I think that's what really excites me is how much of an impact that this can have on people's lives and then, you know, looking after themselves and just yeah, just living purposeful lives.
SPEAKER_01One of the criticisms I'm sure you'll be aware of in the wellness and health space is that its audience can skew middle class, even upper class in nature. It can be quite female-centric or female dominated, which can put some men off, especially working class men. And the methods within it, shall we say? So things like breath work retreats, yoga classes, ice baths, they can feel like a luxury more than a necessity, right? You know, working class people might have far more important issues to deal with, like cost of living, their housing, stigmatised mental health issues they're going through than, you know, going to a Wim Hof ice bath retreat or whatever it is. How do you avoid falling into that trap yourself when it comes to the PR that you do, the marketing that you do? And how would you respond to that challenge too as well?
SPEAKER_02I completely agree with your point. I 100% think that one of the big issues and challenges within the health wellness sector generally is that it can feel very overcomplicated and you can go down rabbit holes, you know, with all of this new health tech, which, yeah, I think, you know, on the whole is less essential than some of the basics. And I think in terms of what we're building in the fifth, it really is access to the basics. And I think you know, that's what our three pillars are going to be, and that's what I genuinely believe in. I think people on the whole can live pretty good lives if they, you know, have got a purposeful work and have the opportunity to grow and progress in their career. They have the opportunity to move and exercise and look after their body and they're around a community of people, and they have that social interaction and their tribe. And really that's what we're doing in the fifth. We're just creating an ecosystem so people can access those three pillars. And you know, we're not gonna have really kind of obscure random health tech as part of our solution. It's not gonna be like a a third space which has, you know, a massive, you know, swimming pool and and loads of brand and stuff in it. It's really gonna be a space where people can come, do their work, they can move and sweat and do a workout, they can recover, they can eat some good food, and then they can socialize and connect. And get those, in my opinion, those kind of fundamentals that are yeah, that are important in living a good, balanced, purposeful life.
SPEAKER_01Obviously, you are catering to men and women, but on the men's side, a lot of my work in this podcast, mate, I talk about three pillars that men need in order to thrive and have a successful life. And they can have one or two of them, but if they have all three, it's absolutely amazing. So, purpose, identity, and belonging. And I think the value that underpins all of male intersocial relationships as well is respect, right? So you might not like someone, or you might not like a man, but if you respect each other, you can sort of coexist and tolerate, right? How do those values and principles fit into the work you're doing at the fifth as well?
SPEAKER_02I mean, I love that purpose, identity, belonging, and I think you could really put that across our three pillars. The identity of the fifth is gonna be, you know, a fitness, health and wellness first members club. That's gonna be our identity, that's gonna be the thing that you know brings us all together. Purpose, we're gonna create an environment where people can enjoy, you know, work on purposeful work and be part of a peer group and learning development programs that help them hone in on that purpose even more. And then belonging, that's gonna be the community. You know, the community is gonna create a sense of belonging for people to be part of. I think those three pillars are great, and I think, you know, in terms of the respect piece, of course, yeah, you you know, you need to create an environment which is respectful, and you know, that needs to be. I think what's so important with concepts like this and creating any culture is you know, what are those core values that you're gonna live by as an organization? And I think especially for a community based business, like I think it's very easy to say you've got these three values, but not really follow them. You know, they're just stuck on a wall. But when it really comes to it and someone's gone clearly against those values, you know, you bottle it and you let it slip and you you know you don't do what you need to do. And I think one of the most difficult things to do, but one of the most important, is really identifying what those values are and then living by them. And if you ever have a situation where a member, even if they are, you know, paying for our biggest private office in one of our members' clubs, if they clearly go against our values and you know jeopardize the environment of the space, then you need to be willing to get rid of people, you know, just based off that. And I think it's one of those things that can feel very difficult short term when you're running a business, you know, obviously need to try and make X amount of revenue to make it work. But I think in the long term, that's how you create an environment that people will, you know, will want to stay in and will refer other people into.
SPEAKER_01So before we reflect, on top of everything you're already doing, at the time of recording, you have also just founded your own community and events agency. So you're doing similar work to Yes Club, but for your fellow founders instead. What has this been like so far as you're uh you're juggling a lot of plates right now, boy?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's been an interesting period. I think this isn't my kind of long-term situation. I do think that there is a lot of value on really honing in on one project and doing whatever you can to make that project go to the places where you think it can go. But right now, because I only I'm only working part-time for Dan and part-time and helping bring the fit to life, which by the way, I think could change relatively quickly. You know, I wanted to find other ways to to monetize my weekends, make the most out of my time, basically. And I realized that there was this quite interesting opportunity where there's a lot of founders that like the idea of building their own community and kind of being a community leader in their space, whatever that might be. But a lot of founders just don't have the time, they don't have the playbook, they don't have the confidence to really get that going and kind of run meaningful events that, you know, have a meaningful impact and position them as a industry leader in their space. That was the opportunity, and being completely honest, you know, it's something that just came from kind of inbound demands from the work that I've done at the S Club, and it's something that haven't put any effort into marketing. And yet at the moment I'm predominantly helping one client of mine build their own community. And yeah, it's it's exciting, but it is challenging, you know, balancing all three things at once at the moment. And yeah, I don't think I will be in this situation in six months' time. I think I'll be honing in on one project.
SPEAKER_01Let's reflect now before we talk about your mental health journey. So, first of all, what's been your proudest achievement on this journey so far?
SPEAKER_02Yes, an interesting question. There's been lots of little proud moments. I think one thing I'm not very good at is really appreciating the wins and just moving on to the next thing straight away. But I'd say that taking the punt to actually go and start the Yes Club was a very proud moment of mine. And we've recently just reached our kind of year milestone, and we've got a community of 110 founders, you know, who are all brilliant, got a waitlist of a few hundred founders too. And I'd say my most kind of recent proud moment was last week where one of our members put a message on the WhatsApp group. Because I do this thing each week where I do a shout-out to like a few fans in the community that have done a cool thing that'd be. And one of the members wrote a really nice long message just being like, you know, I'm so grateful for being part of this community. Like it's honestly been the best thing that I've engaged in. Like I've met five of my investors through the S Club. Like, it's genuinely been, you know, really, really impactful on where I am right now. And just yeah, I'd be so grateful for all the work you do. And and yeah, little comments like that mean a lot because I think when you build a community, a lot of the impact happens behind the scenes. You run these events and you don't actually really know. You know, you connect 20 people together, and then everyone goes off afterwards and meets each other and builds relationships. And you know, it's funny because sometimes people are really good at telling you the impact, but some people don't. I don't know why they I don't know whether it's because they just feel a bit awkward about it, but you know, some people don't like to tell you. So it's great to receive those little reminders sometimes of the impact of you know of the work that you're doing in terms of building community, and also just reiterates how powerful community really can be when done right. You know, community is obviously a bit of a buzzword at the moment, like a lot of people are building communities, and some of those communities have more substance than others, but I think a community done right really yeah, really can be powerful. So, so yeah, I'd say that was a recent crowd moments.
SPEAKER_01And finally, what has this journey so far taught you about yourself? Two things come to mind.
SPEAKER_02Number one is that I feel like I've always had this like inner belief that just that I feel more confident than I ever had before. And I just think that it is crazy what everybody is capable of. And I really do believe what's my quote, it's like the person that says that they can't and the person that says that they can are both right, and I and I think that's so true. I think you know, if you set your mind on something and try and achieve something and kind of build something, and you really believe that you can do it, that belief will carry you forward, and 100% gets tested at times. Like I've had many times where I've been running an event for the Yes Club and I've been like, gosh, like am I even going to be able to fill this event? Is it even going to be worth it? And it tests you, and you can be close to being like, oh, try to pull the plug. And then you know, you get a few sign-ups and it all works out, and it definitely tests you, but I think that inner belief is absolutely huge. I think the second thing I've learned about myself, and it's something that I've really had to try and stamp out of myself, is that I'm a master perfectionist, and yeah, it's realisation I realised that until and I realized that and I think this is really true. I think often that your biggest strokes can also be your biggest weaknesses, and I think one of my biggest strengths is that I was always very in the detail, like very in the detail. You know, I could tell if there was like something that was gonna unpick, you know, a plan because you know, had that level of granularity with everything that I did, and I really set a really high standard. Like I wanted everything I did to be at a certain standard, and I would beat myself up if it slipped from being that certain standard. But ultimately, being a perfectionist slows you down, and you've got to, when building, when pursuing entrepreneurship, whatever you're doing, you know, just trying to progress in your career, you've got to get comfortable at not being perfect and just pushing forward and doing stuff at 70% and learning from those mistakes and just making progress. And perfectionists really can be one of the biggest killers at progress. And I think if I wasn't such a perfectionist, I think I would have probably progressed further in my career than I am now. And it's you know, it's something that I'm you know actively working on, but that has been a huge learning for me because I think when you first realised as a perfectionist like a few years ago, you kind of think it's quite a good thing on the whole. You're like, oh, I'm a perfectionist. Like that's quite a good weakness to say, like, but it is actually it is a serious weakness, it really can be, yeah, the killer of all progress. So that has been a big learning at mine.
SPEAKER_01It's really funny when you were saying your first answer, mate, because it just brought to mind a quote I read recently, and it was to do with war. And the quote was the only difference between a hero and a coward is both of them are scared to death, but one of them steps forward and one of them steps back.
SPEAKER_02100%. Yes, that's fair piece of confronting fair, so true.
SPEAKER_01We've talked about your professional journey and all the great work you're doing up in the Fifth and Yes Club. Let's go deeper and talk about your own mental health journey, Arthur. So I ask all my special guests on this topic, this question first, take me back to early life teenagers and looking back, were there any early mental health experiences? If any, who's the Arthur we meet here?
SPEAKER_02So I think a kind of important bit of context is that until I was a teenager, I personally didn't experience any mental health challenges, but I was around some very close families. Members that did um for quite prolonged periods, you know, which did have an impact on me. Yeah, I think to give a bit of context, my parents split up when I was quite young. I then moved to London with my mum. Both my parents then got into new relationships and was lucky to, you know, have some half siblings on either side, but my mum then got into a relationship which was very challenging basically, and we had quite a difficult period, yeah, for quite a long time on my mum's side of the family, which you know had a huge impact on my mum, on my sister, or my little brother. And growing up, I was the rock, you know, I didn't really show much emotion. I really felt like I had a responsibility to be the person that was strong, and I felt like if I wasn't the one that was strong, I was gonna put strong like that because looking back at it, I wasn't really being strong, but I felt like in air qu in air quotes for the listeners, you they can't see, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I felt like that if I kind of broke down, there wouldn't be anybody left in the family to kind of just power forward. So I just went through that period of just basically bottling up all of my emotions and just not yeah, just not showing any of those emotions. And I think you know, it was a very difficult time with legally court cases, there was some very tricky situations. Yeah, it was a really difficult period, which went on for quite a long time. And yeah, growing up, I was very good at detaching myself to it. I was obsessed with football when I was younger. My mum always says that I just like she would just go and play football, and it was my kind of distraction from everything. And and I think it's one of those things with mental health. It's so hard to really relate to someone with mental health challenges until you've really experienced it yourself. And I think genuinely up till about 17 years old, even though I'd experienced people around me having really difficult mental health challenges, I just thought I was invincible. I didn't think mental health would ever be something that affected me. I was like, I've been through a lot and like I'm fine. So I was like, you know, and I obviously I tried to relate to the people around me that were experiencing challenges, but I couldn't really relate. So I didn't know what anxiety felt like, I didn't know what depression felt like. So yeah, I think that's the kind of the important bit of context is that there was a lot going on in those early stages of me growing up, but until 17, I didn't think mental health would ever affect me, and I didn't really understand what mental health really was.
SPEAKER_01It's really interesting when you talked about this need to maintain at least a mask of resilience, right? And I think with a lot of men, and this is a subject and topic that I've heard over many men, it's something that I experienced myself, is that our conception of the word strong is built around this idea of not stoicism, but this sort of kind of corrupted form of stoicism where we suppress everything, we put on a mask of kind of being stoic and trying to remain strong. Whereas actually the definition of stoicism is being able to express vulnerability, being able to express your emotions, but still being able to be strong, right? Still being able to move forward, being able to overcome challenges. Nathan Nicholas Talid talked about this idea of anti-fragility whereby resilience, you kind of stay the same after negative experiences happen to you. Anti-fragility is you change for the better after negative experiences happen to you, right? When did that conception for you change to where you could be strong, but you could be vulnerable at the same time where you needed to be?
SPEAKER_02It was a really long process for me. You know, it came from the first trigger was me, you know, experiencing my own mental health challenges when I was 17. And then I, you know, was very fortunate to see a therapist just after I finished school. And I think you know, I went through it was a process of I guess just kind of chipping away at that big shield that I put up, you know, for such a long time to protect myself. And I think you know, ultimately that's why I think a lot of people put up that shield. It's just a form of protection, it's a form of not, you know, a protector, mate. Yeah. And I think you know, when people get badly hurt, they put it up because they don't want to be hurt again. And it's a survival tool, mate. Yeah. 100%. And so I think I just had that big shield, and it, you know, it took a few different forces kind of chipping away at it to kind of start bringing it down. I think one important thing to note now is that you know, my mum was a huge part of that. You know, my mum is one of the biggest role models that I have, and she is someone growing up that really led by example in terms of having that emotional intelligence and being sensitive and talking about our emotions. And even though maybe I didn't really take her advice on when I was younger, like she was a huge kind of role model in terms of just that whole kind of emotional support, that emotional intelligence piece. And I feel very, very lucky to you know to have her as my mum because she was yeah, she was a massive part of that journey for me. And you know, when I started, you know, experiencing anxiety for the first time, like I was so ashamed of it. You know, I didn't tell anybody for it. And my mum was the first person that I told about it, and you know, I feel very lucky to have had a relationship with her that I told her everything. So, you know, all of the stupid things that I experimented with as a teenager, I told my mum about, and she was always very supportive, never got angry with me, you know, told me that you know I need to be careful and was being a bit of an idiot. But there was a lot of trust in that relationship, and I think that was you know a huge part and a huge influence of me, you know, eventually managing to let down that shield and be more in touch with my emotions and more vulnerable as a person.
SPEAKER_01Let's talk about those difficulties in a bit more depth now, but obviously what you feel comfortable disclosing. So when you're 17, you have your first panic attack, and in the following six years, like you've said, you've experienced bouts of anxiety on and off, you've treated it through therapy, and we'll talk about recovery in a bit. Just tell me about how that panic attack manifested, and also outside of your mum, obviously in therapy, how you got through that period too, mate.
SPEAKER_02So, so yeah, so in terms of the panic attack, I was sitting in a history class, it was lower six, I was 17, and you know, the teacher that we had, you know, would quite like to basically go around and speak in the class would read out a passage of whatever we were reading. And public speaking was never something that I enjoyed doing, but it's something that I could do, you know, and if I was called upon, I would do it. I wouldn't enjoy it, definitely not the best public speaker in the world, but I could do it. And I got asked to read this passage out in front of class, and I started trying to read it, and I just suddenly felt so aware of everything around me. It felt like I almost like almost lifted out my body, and I was so shaky, and my hands weren't really sweaty, and my heart started beating so quickly, and I never had a panic attack before, so I genuinely didn't know what was going on, and I thought maybe I was having a heart attack or something, like it was such a scary feeling, and my voice started trembling, and I stopped speaking, I couldn't finish the passage, and you know, I was very aware of you know, everyone looking at me and thinking, gosh, like what's wrong with after? And that was the trigger, and that first moment it almost triggered this like phobia of being put on the spot, and it meant that every lesson I went to, I was so nervous about being asked to speak in front of class or do anything performance-related that it turned into a massive anxiety, and I would genuinely be terrified walking into a lesson just because I was so scared about being put on the spot, and I was so scared about having another panic attack, and I was so scared about embarrassing myself in front of my friends, and you know, that was the big thing that it came from. It it came from this kind of insecurity of myself and just this massive fear of embarrassment and judgment and being kind of thought of as weird for not being able to do something that you know on paper was quite an easy thing to do, and it was crazy how much that influenced me. That was the trigger of the anxiety in terms of how I managed it. I managed it very poorly at first. I didn't really know what to do, I didn't really want to tell anybody about it, and it wasn't until the kind of following half term, which I think was like a few weeks later, and yeah, I remembered so clearly because it was such a big moment in my life sitting on my mum's bed and me just knowing that I needed to say something, but just finding it really hard to say it. And I was just like, Mum, like I need to tell you something, and she was like, What is it? And I was like, I'm just I'm having this really weird thing at school, like I just can't. I thought I was like had it hard snapped, I've had it like a few times now, and I just don't know what's going on with me, da da da. And my mum, like, always knows best. She kind of immediately picked up on what the trigger of it was, which was that you know, I effectively had not very good experience on a night out that kind of triggers, was the immediate trigger. But there was obviously family stuff that was the kind of deeper root, and yeah, I told her this and just broke down crying, and it was the first time I cried in such a long time. I didn't remember the last time I cried, and my mum cried too, and like it was just like it was such a big moment. Like I hadn't felt that vulnerable for such a long time, and and telling my mum was such a relief off my shoulders, and yeah, that was a big moment. And then, in terms of the kind of next step, it was then, you know, my mum was like, I think you should see the kind of school counsellor about this and get some support. So did that, and then because it was so close to my A levels when this was going on, the school counsellor basically advised that potentially wasn't the best time for me to start going through therapy because it was just like it could bring up lots of weird stuff and affect your A levels and your academic results. They were like, why don't you take this medication for now just to help you get through this period? So they gave me this theta blocker called Propanarol, which I took, you know, when I was at school during lessons, and that kind of helped the short-term problem of me getting panic attacks and feeling that anxiety. But it made that whole last bit of school a really weird experience for me because I became so dependent on it. I felt so numb the whole time. I felt so like out of there. It was like almost like I wasn't really there. Like I was just like numb 100%. And it was really weird, actually. Like it was a weird time, and and I became so dependent on it. Like, if I realised I'd forgotten to take it, I would literally run to try and get it somewhere and kind of get wherever I left it. And it was a weird period. So that was kind of the short-term fix, I guess, was to go on medication.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it felt like a sticking plaster for you, mate, for sure. As part of your recovery, mate, you decided to deliberately take yourself out of your comfort zone and put yourself into situations that scared you, in air quotes. Give me some examples of those and how you managed your anxiety or mental health in those moments.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I guess the next step of that process is that, and to just give a bit of an overview is that I didn't really overcome my anxiety during school because I was on this medication, and then I left school and I basically took a year out because I wanted to go travelling. This was just before COVID here, and I worked in London for a bit, and I just basically did hospitality, worked in the hospitality industry to try and save up a bit of money. And I again, because I wasn't really in situations where I was being put on the spot, I kind of wasn't really confronting the anxiety, which I would kind of call a performance anxiety. Like it wasn't really a social anxiety, it was basically the fear of being put on the spot and having to perform in some kind of way in front of people. And I yeah, I didn't really confront it. I then went to university in Manchester, and again, because everything was online because of COVID, it meant I wasn't really going into situations where I was confronted with my anxiety. But even on those online calls, like I would get really anxious. My kind of attendance was awful in first year because I just would miss lectures and seminars because I was again scared. You know, I wasn't confronted with my anxiety, and during that period, I was also doing some therapy, and that was really helpful in terms of just beginning to unpack some of the stuff that happened to me, you know, happened during my childhood that has led to me experience anxiety. But the first big step, well, actually, there was a couple of steps from recovering from that anxiety. I'd say the first big one was that in my first year summer of university, I went to work for a summer school, and this actually was a huge turning point in my life because for this summer school, we had to do this week training program where we effectively, the camp councillors, and I was one of them, we had to go through the program that the kids wouldn't go through. So we all had to learn. We had to learn 50 songs, we had to learn 50 indoor games, 50 outdoor games, we had to do a play, we had to like do all the art classes. We basically had to go through the program and almost act like a kid. And there was something so profound about this experience because I was at the peak of that kind of insecure, like having no idea what I was doing in my life, kind of late teens, where I was very closed off, bit too cool for school, and the idea of singing about Colin the Caterpillar in front of 20 people, you know, was absolutely like bonkers to me. That would never happen. And we basically had to go through this thing, and there was just something about just embarrassing yourself in front of everybody and realizing actually wait, no one gives a shit. And it's actually quite fun. It was just the most like liberating feeling, and then actually doing the camp and again like seeing the impact on the kids that had come to this camp, and because they all were the same, because there was some quite you know young teens and they'd come with their phones and they'd have to put their phones away and they wouldn't really get involved in any activities, and then eventually you'd get their guard down and they'd get stuck in and leave feeling so happy. And it was a big moment for me because one, I confronted some of my anxieties because I was leading a group, I was you know having to sing songs in front of groups of kids, lead games in front of the kids, but two, it really made me realise how I guess just you know embarrassing yourself and the points we're gonna make, it made me realise that no one really gives a shit. Like you care so much about your life and being judged and what you're gonna do, but actually, everyone's only worrying about their own business, and if you live in that fear, it's so limiting. Whereas actually, if you just put yourself out there and do some stuff that's you know potentially would have scared you before, you know, it feels limitating. So that was I'd say was the first like big moment of kind of confronting my anxiety and kind of stepping, stepping out of that period of life that I was in.
SPEAKER_01Well, it sounds like, mate, that was your exposure therapy, just not in a clinical setting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. And you know, that's what it was. And and you know, to go back to your question, there was numerous points like that experience, which just kind of led up to almost having that evidence that you know what, I can do this, I could be in these situations. The next big moment was moving to Bristol, and I was like, you know what, this is a fresh chapter for me. I'm out of Manchester Fresh Start. I joined the sales team and I was like, I made an oath that I was like, every sales training session, every meeting, I'm gonna make sure I'm the first person to put my hand up to do anything. And I literally just like before the question was even asked, I'd be like you know, they would laugh because they'd be like, after, like, again, like you don't even know what they're gonna ask. But I was like, putting my hands up. And again, like that was massive for my confidence. Those little moments just built up over time, and it led me to have the confidence to, you know, to get the job in London until that led me to have the confidence to start the S Club. Like all of these little things build up over time and slowly build up that confidence. Like you said, it's exposure therapy 100%.
SPEAKER_01It's almost like you were creating uh a new version of yourself, but for your own good, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I think you know, a big part of that journey was during university. It was kind of just after this summer school thing, or maybe it was just before. I basically got quite ill at the end of my first year of university, and it kind of marked this like period of a few years of my life of just getting ill the whole time, you know, physically, just always getting tonsillitis, always over. I think I had like tonsillitis like eight times in two years, something ridiculous, and not feeling very well mentally, and like having anxiety. And I had this big realization where I realized just how lost I was as a person, and I realized it was because I didn't really know what I wanted to do in my life, like I had no idea what I wanted to do. And what I did, and it was such a big moment for me. I think I was on holiday with my mum and my sister, and I came up with these seven pillars that I wanted to like do in my life, I wanted to live my lifeline, what I wanted to achieve in my life. And the number one pillar was to start prioritizing my mental and physical health from now on. And what I realized is if I didn't do that pillar, the other six pillars would be very hard for me to do. So, for example, one of them was to build a successful business that has a positive impact on the world. The other one was to be a good husband and father, and by good, you know, it was kind of loving, supportive, present, etc. Like I had these pillars, and they were all quite big things, but there was something about it that gave me a lot of reassurance because I was like, oh, seven things. Like life's not that difficult. I can do seven things in my life. So that was number one, and then number two, it was yeah, it was realizing that actually the health pillar, if I didn't do that, it was very hard for me to do any of my other goals. And it made me really realize how that my health is my first foundation, it's the thing I need to prioritize first. And that is what triggered the kind of passion for me to go into the health and wellness space and start, you know, that obviously started with the mental health industry and then got a bit broader. But that was also a big part of my journey, I think, of going out of anxiety and getting to where I am now is that almost that kind of self-discovery piece and really working out what my values were and what I wanted to do in my life alongside that exposure therapy of helping me get over my anxiety. And yeah, say those were two big pillars. And I think the third pillar, you know, is also just learning to be vulnerable and to get better at sharing my emotions and get better at leaning on the people around me. I think up to that point, I'd always been the person that people would come to to talk to about their problems, and I would take that all in. I'd be the person that was kind of that people came to, but I would never go to anybody with my problems. Like again, it leads to that point that we were talking about earlier about this kind of guard of like, you know, thinking it was kind of like resiliency and just and it was yeah, it was kind of realizing also during that period that when I was feeling shit, like I needed to lean on the people around me and I needed to get better at reaching out for support because ultimately if you're struggling and you don't reach out for people to help you, like one, you're not gonna get better, and two, they can't really do anything to help. And they can reach in, they they can reach in, but I would find myself getting frustrated because I'd be like, Oh, you know, you're not doing anything to help me, but ultimately, you know, I wasn't being open with what I was experiencing, so I think it's a two-way thing, that thing, and I think you know, ultimately, like we need to try and let people in by being a bit vulnerable and being a bit brave.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and trust is key to that, mate. And I think with men, our trust levels need to be very high when we are in that period of vulnerability before we disclose, and it's really important that people learn that and build the trust with men. You spoke about perfectionism earlier, right? I'm a perfectionist as well. One trait that comes with perfectionism is also people pleasing, and I'm a people pleaser recovery as you are, mate. And there were two books which are really important on my people pleaser recovery journey. One is very famous now and one is not so well known, and they both talk about this singular practice, which is called detachment theory. So the very famous one is The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins, and I read that when it first came out, and then the other which I read several years ago, which is Karen Casey's Let Go Now, which is more niche. So, have you learned detachment theory yet? And if you have, how do you practice it?
SPEAKER_02To be honest, I haven't read either of those books, so I might need you to elaborate on the detachment theory, but I have always been a massive people pleaser, and I think I still am a bit, but another huge part of my journey was learning to say no. And you know, up to the point where I was really ill, I said yes to everything, literally everything. And you know, Manchester was quite a big party university. I was always the last person to stand warehouse project. I had zero self-control, and I always put people's needs ahead of mine. Like I would, you know, try and make every single birthday party, even if I was like, you know, I was just would never say I like no one's even an option. It literally wasn't in my dictionary.
SPEAKER_01I got invited to three once, mate. I got invited to three on the same night and I went to all of them. I was like, right, I'm gonna spend half an hour at this one, an hour at this one, and I'm gonna finish. At this one and then go out. Why? Why did I do it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So yeah, when I kind of honed in on my kind of pillars and realized the way I wanted to live my life moving forward, I realized how different the life I was living currently was compared to that. And a huge, huge part of that was beginning to put my needs ahead of other people's and beginning to start saying no to stuff that actually didn't align with one of my pillars and wasn't going to help in any way. And that I found very difficult at first. Because, you know, because everyone, my kind of social circles at Manchester, like it was very much built on partying. It was really hard to start saying no because, you know, people would judge you because maybe deep down that they didn't really want to go out either, but they kind of felt annoyed that you were actually making the decision to not do it. So it meant that my social circles really changed actually. They've really evolved over this period of my life. You know, they're very different now. And a big part of that was learning to say no and trying to stop worrying about what people are thinking about you as much as you know, I always have been.
SPEAKER_01I think when your social network is built on something like partying, it's very hollow, it can feel very fake and clicky. And when you start saying no, you realize that those people drop off very quickly because the foundations that your friendships or acquaintances are built on is not very stable or solid, really, isn't it? 100%.
SPEAKER_02And it's funny because I kind of I went through this transition, and it's funny, it's not sticking in my head. Even now I'm worrying about if one of them was to listen to this.
SPEAKER_01Fuck them! Don't care, fuck them.
SPEAKER_02That's me being a people closer. I went through this weird transition where all my best mates were predominantly guys until second year of university, and I went through this transition where all my best friends became girls, and I think what happened is that the kind of group that I was in Manchester, like you said, so much of the kind of conversation in the day-to-day was so shallow and kind of meaningless. But also, some of the girls in our kind of wider group, they were just, I don't know, they were a bit more mature, they were more aligned with like the life that I wanted to live. So, like, for example, my now girlfriend TB, who became my best friend at university, like at the time I just couldn't get my head around it because you know, she still liked to have fun, etc., but lived a much more better balanced life than me. Like, she also ran and like worked out. And I was like, I remember like hearing about it for the first time being like, what? You run? Like, really? People do that. I like I couldn't wrap my head around it. Anyway, it was almost like this like shining light, and I was like, you know what? I need to go that way. So, you know, we signed up to a half marathon together, and it like it just forced me to start getting into slightly better habits and just being slightly less all or nothing and just beginning to look after myself a bit more. It was just an interesting shift because I also I was craving, and it's something that's really stuck with me. Like, it's a big part of the Yes Club. You know, the whole idea is to create an environment, a space where people can really get onto the surface and be vulnerable and have honest conversations. I really enjoy that level of depth. I always have. It's why I loved hosting dinners at you know Manchester, which is the most on-dinner party university in the whole world. I've always loved creating environments like that, and I've always found it more interesting having conversations that got underneath the surface. And it's interesting because I just yeah, I went through a period where my kind of circles slightly changed, and I think that was a big part of it. I was really craving that death, and at the time I wasn't really getting it.
SPEAKER_01Let's reflect now, bro. So, similar question as the first topic, first of all, what has this mental health journey taught you about yourself?
SPEAKER_02I think it's taught me to love myself. That's what my mind comes to. I think deep down, I think that's been the shift over the last 10 years.
SPEAKER_01Wow, I love that man. And as a final question, before we move on to our quick fire mental health chat, if you could go back and talk to that 17-year-old Arthur who was having that first intense panic attack, the 22-year-old Arthur who was traveling and doing those uh MPC traveller activities, or the Arthur who was about to start the Yes Club or help be a part of founding the fifth, what would you say to him, knowing what you do now, if anything at all?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's a good thing to have at the end of the question. You do have to just go through your own journey and learn on the go, don't you? I don't regret a single thing that has happened in my life because every single thing has led me to be the person that I am today and has given me the values that I've got today. But I think if I was to give a bit of reassurance to my 17-year-old self, I'd probably just say something on the lines of, you're gonna be okay, you're gonna get through this phase. These things happen in phases, and they always pass. And when they pass, you won't be thinking about it. And I think also I think it's really powerful to be told just I'm proud of you, like I'm proud of where you've got to so far, and I'm proud of you getting through this challenge and and you kind of making the pun to do whatever you're gonna do next. And I think those are three really powerful words. I think, you know, for you to be told by anyone that's close to you and like and loves you, and I and I think it's important to remind yourself that too, you know, once you've kind of gone through a period of growth, which you know often happens around a certain challenge. I think it's important to remind yourself that you've got through it and and be proud of yourself.
SPEAKER_01Our final topic of conversation, Arthur, and it's one I try and have with all of my special guests if we have time. It is a general Natter and quick fire lightning round about our mental health. So, firstly, how is your mental health out of 10? Eight. Love that. I'm presuming I know the answer to this one anyway. But what age were you when you became self-aware of your mental health and you realised that the feelings you were having weren't physical and they were actually in your mind? 17. I thought the answer would be that, to be fair. Was it a eureka moment at the time, or was it a gradual process or both? Both.
SPEAKER_02Definitely a strong moment to become aware, but a gradual process to really become aware, I'd say. What positive triggers do you have?
SPEAKER_01Um spending time with people that I love. What positive tools and methods do you use to improve your mental health or help you feel better? Which ones have worked for you, and which ones have you tried but haven't worked?
SPEAKER_02I think exercise is a big thing to me, and it, you know, it's a big reason why I feel so passionate about what we're building in the face to go for a long run like I did this morning. I've been feeling a bit weird these past few weeks, and something like that can really clear my mind and just reset me. So I'd say exercise is a huge one for me. Something that I want to get better at is taking the time to do a bit of meditation and mindfulness. It's something that I think I've set as a New Year's resolution two years in a row and it drops off quite quickly. But just being a bit more realistic, I think what I often do is set two ambitious goals, but actually just like just making sure that when I feel like I need it, whether that's once a week or once, you know, every couple weeks, just spending a bit of time to do a bit of a meditation mindfulness YouTube video before going to bed one evening. So I think something like that. I operate at very high level of like energy and stress throughout the day and throughout the weeks, and I find that in the day-to-day is fine, but it slowly builds up weeks after weeks. And I think doing little things like that that are a bit more preventative are really important.
SPEAKER_01If there was a mantra in life that summed up your mental health, what would it be and why?
SPEAKER_02Um I'd say be brave. One of the things I did, you know, is I kind of came up with five of my core values, and I've got these five values, and I'd say that all of them come naturally to me. So like one of them's honesty, one of them's resiliency, one of them's empathy, one of them's curiosity. Those all come very naturally to me. I just I've got a bar to them. Bravery is the one value that doesn't come naturally to me. You know, I've got to consciously try and push it and confront fear. And like we've spoken about a couple of times, you know, during this podcast, I think being brave is just such an incredible trait to actually putting yourself out there and growing personally and professionally and you know, reaching your goals, reaching your dreams.
SPEAKER_01You spoke earlier about how you've grown to love yourself. What do you love about yourself?
SPEAKER_02Um I mean, there's a lot I love about myself, but I'd say I'd say I love my kind of values as a person, and I'm a very honest person, very caring person. You know, I put everything into you know to everything that you know I work on professionally, but also, you know, towards the kind of relationships that I care most about.
SPEAKER_01And as a final question, mate, you can answer it any way you want. What more do you think we have to do to ensure men from all backgrounds, all walks of life feel comfortable and safe in opening up about their mental health issues or just their general mental health and well-being, if most importantly, they want to do it?
SPEAKER_02So, one thing that comes to my mind immediately, actually, is I've got a friend who's part of the S-Club community called Luke Barrow. Have you ever spoken to Luke Barrow, found of Two Pines Tea? I can add him to the list, mate. I'll connect you with him. He runs an amazing charity for kind of men's mental health, suicide prevention called Two Pines Tea. And I guess I want to first say that I think there really has been massive progress in the mental health space. I know so many incredible people building incredible initiatives, communities, and businesses that really are making mental health more accessible and really are creating spaces for men to open up. But one thing though I think is really important point, and Luke does it really well, and I'm gonna butcher kind of doing it justice, but it's being able to, and hear me out here, but it's it's almost being able to make whatever you're doing seem cool enough. Maybe cool is not the right word, but to seem not intimidating enough to get people's foot in the door. So a big thing for Luke is that he feels like some of the charities and initiatives that are put in place, they're too kind of alienating and intimidating from your average guy, and they're just too like, yeah, it's just too much. It's just too much from your kind of average guy that goes to the pub. They're just too much. And what Luke's really good at is even by the branding, two pints deep, you know, supposed to be like, you know, when you've had a couple drinks, be a little bit more open. He makes a real effort to every initiative he runs to make it seem more accessible to your everyday blow. So for example, instead of doing hot yoga, Pilates, Men's Mental Health Day, he calls his thing, you know, something really clever, like, you know, the Wobbly Knees Society. So something like that. And I think that is really clever because I think with guys that are so in entrenched in a kind of like social infrastructure and they've been grown up a certain way by their parents, and they're in the same friendship group, the same life. I think if you really want to access those kind of people, you need to speak their language and you need to create something where they are. You need to create something that can get their foot into the door of what you're doing and can have an impact, but it needs to be subtle and it needs to be speaking their language.
SPEAKER_01So I think that's really important. I 100% agree, mate. This is the work that I do quite a lot. I've interviewed men who are in this space. We need to meet men where they are. This comes back to the criticism of the kind of health and wellness space, whereby it can feel off-putting to men, it can feel abstract to them, it doesn't speak their language right. And I think what you've just said there is really powerful. I agree with every word you've said, and what your friend is doing is clearly aligned with the mission event as well. I had a friend come on called Chris Hemmings, and his co-founder of his organization, Men's Therapy Hub, said, we need to fit therapy into men, not men into therapy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_01Love that. And what you've just spoken about in the pod, it's your own form of therapy, right? So, yes, you did traditional sit-down one-to-one, but you did that exposure therapy in a way with the summer camp and the summer school, I should say. You've done loads of other things which have been different forms of therapy, right? And my friend Dean Corney, I'll wrap up here. He spoke about this idea that anything can be a therapy for a man if he views it in the right way, right? So sport can be a therapy. Things like me and you chatting right now can be a form of therapy, right? It's we need to change not the definition, but we need to change our understanding of the word therapy so it allows men to look at their own mental health and their own mental fitness as not just one size fits all, but one size fits one. 100% very powerful. Arthur, it has been an absolute pleasure, my bro. It's taken a few attempts to get this in the diary, probably my fault at some point. But thank you so much for coming on the Just Checking In podcast and talking to me, brother.
SPEAKER_02Mate, it's an absolute pleasure, and honestly, yeah, you're doing incredible work. So feel very grateful to be a small part of it and yeah, also really excited to follow on with your journey and support in any way I can moving forward.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's all we've got time for on this episode of the Just Checking In Pod. A big thank you to Arthur for being my special guest and for letting me check in with him. I'll put some links to where you can find out more about Yes Club and the Fifth and follow them both on social media in the show notes. As always, thank you to all the vendors who've checked in on this episode. Remember, if you've liked what you've heard, please do give it a share on social media by tagging us at VentHelpUK. Tell your friends, family, or work colleagues about us. If you're feeling generous, write us a review and give us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what we're doing, you can also support us by going to patreon.com slash venthelpuk or make a one-off donation to our PayPal. All of those links are on our link tree. That's linktr.ee slash vent helpuk. We have to kill you again very soon. Remember, guys, it's always okay.
