The Just Checking In Podcast
The Just Checking In Podcast is another step in VENT’s mission to give people a voice, change the conversation around mental health and provide an outlet where everyone, but especially men and boys, can express themselves. In each pod we check in with a special guest. We have a natter and a chat about all things mental health as well as anything and everything else they're passionate about. If it helps that person with their mental health, we'll discuss it!
The Just Checking In Podcast
JCIP #366 - Jamie Dennis - Part 2
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In episode 366 of The Just Checking In Podcast we checked back in with Jamie Dennis.
Jamie Dennis is the Founder and CEO of Mandem Meet Up, a grassroots charity which promotes, corrects and improves the conversation around men’s mental health and wellbeing. They provide an open, inclusive community for all men, integrating a range of social, holistic and more ‘traditional’ forms of clinical support.
We first checked in with Jamie in JCIP #268 in December 2024, where we discussed MMU’s origins, his experience of being a survivor of abuse, social class, and a big turning point in life when he could have gone to prison.
Since then, MMU has gone from strength to strength, changing men’s lives for the better and becoming a pillar of the community across Manchester, Wolverhampton and the wider North West and Midlands.
In this Part 2, we discuss a new youth-oriented programme Jamie has created called ‘Youtdem’ and the impact its had on the young men who've accessed it.
We also discuss social class and the confidence he has as a CEO from a working-class background, the pride in that achievement and staying authentic and true to himself.
We then discuss a collaboration MMU have done with great friends of VENT We Are Survivors and our mutual close friend Duncan Craig OBE, who have created a Survivor Allyship programme to encourage professionals to receive enhanced training for working with male survivors from sexual harm.
A massive recent development for MMU has been taking lease of five acres of land in Wolverhampton, which they aim to turn into the UK’s first nature space specifically for men and boys.
After we checked in with Jamie, we had Leigh Edwards on from MMU Wolves, who ran an incredible 10 marathons in 10 days in June 2025 to raise money for MMU. We discuss that achievement and what Leigh’s fundraising has been invested into.
We then reflect on the growth MMU has done that people might not see: the infrastructure, the hiring of more staff, and the steps Jamie has taken to grow the organisation and the responsibility he has to continue that progress.
And finally, we touch on a few issues in the men’s space which MMU advocate on, including the recent Men’s Health Strategy from the UK Government, which was published in November 2025, and the Violence Against Women and Girls Strategy, which still counts male survivors of abuse as women, and Jamie’s views on that.
For Jamie’s continued mental health journey, since we last checked in, he has gotten married and become a father, and we discuss these two massive life changes, the benefits its brought him, but also just as importantly, the challenges of fatherhood and how parenthood can impact a relationship.
As always, #itsokaytovent
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Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of the Just Checkin' In podcast. I'm your host, Rennie Cocker, and this podcast is brought to you by Vent, a place where everyone, but especially men and boys, can open up about their mental health issues, break down stigmas, and start conversations. And each episode I check in with a special guest. We have a natta and a chat about all things mental health, as well as anything and everything else they are passionate about. If it helps that person with their mental health, we discuss it. In this episode, I'm checking back in with a great man doing genuinely life-saving work for men and men's mental health in the Northwest and Midlands in the UK. Jamie Dennis is the founder and CEO of Mandem Meetup, a grassroots charity which promotes, corrects, and improves the conversation around men's mental health and well-being. They provide an open, inclusive community for all men, integrating a range of social, holistic, and more traditional forms of clinical support. I first checked in with Jamie in JCIP 268 in December 2024, where we discussed MMU's origins, his experience being a survivor of abuse, social class, a big turning point in his life when he could have gone to prison, and how he changed his life path from that point to doing the work he's doing today. Since then, Mandem Meetup has gone from strength to strength, changing men's lives for the better and becoming a pillar of the community across Manchester, Wolverhampton, and the wider Northwest and Midlands. In this part two, we discuss a new youth-oriented programme Jamie has created, appropriately called Ute Dem, and the impact it's had on the young men who have accessed it and the impact it's had on Jamie too, having been a young man who was previously lost and found his way back to the right path. We also discuss social class again and the confidence he has as a CEO from a working class background, the pride in that achievement and staying authentic and true to himself, whilst now rubbing shoulders with people from very different backgrounds and very different social classes. We then discuss a collaboration MMU have done with great friends of Venn and my personal close friend We Are Survivors, CEO Duncan Craig OBE, which has created a survivor allyship program to encourage professionals to receive enhanced training for working with male survivors from sexual harm. This includes training courses for professions like masseurs, tattoo artists, dentists, and sexual health workers. A massive recent development for MMU has been taking lease of five acres of land in Wolverhampton, which they aim to turn into the UK's first nature space specifically for men and boys, which came off the back of the success of the Ute Dem program. After I first checked in with Jamie, I had brother Lee Edwards on from MMU Wolves, who ran an incredible 10 marathons in 10 days in June 2025 to raise money for MMU, and we discussed that achievement and what Lee's fundraising has been invested into. We then reflect on the growth MMU has done that people might not see, the infrastructure, the hiring of more staff, and the steps Jamie has taken to grow the organisation and the responsibility he has to continue that progress. And finally, we touch on a few issues in the men's space which MMU advocate on, including the recent men's health strategy from the UK government, which was published in November 2025, and the violence against women and girls strategy, which still counts male survivors of abuse as women, and we talk about Jamie's views on that. For Jamie's continued mental health journey, since we last checked in, he has gotten married and become a father, and we discuss those two massive life changes. We talk about the benefits it's brought him, but also, just as importantly for you listeners, the challenges of fatherhood and how parenthood can impact a relationship. So this is how part two of my conversation with a legend that is, Jamie Dennis went. So I apologize for that. But we are here, we are cooking. Since we first checked in, it has been absolutely incredible to watch the growth of Mandem, growth of you. We're going to talk all about it, and the growth of Brother Lee, obviously, which you helped me very kindly connect with. How are you on this Saturday morning, brother?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm good, you know. I've had a nice morning with my son, so feeling good, feeling nice.
SPEAKER_02We've got that to talk about as well. And it feels like we've almost got as much to talk about on this part two as we did on part one. So without further delay, are you ready to start the show and talk all about it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man, let's do it.
SPEAKER_02In your part two, let's dive into the amazing work you do and continue to do with Mandem First, bro. So I want to start with a new program you created, appropriately called Ute Dem. It was at the start or the end, I should say, of 2025. It's all about helping young men and boys. Tell me how the spark for the idea came about and what you wanted to achieve with it.
SPEAKER_00We've been talking about it for a long time. Mandem Meetup stands at a certain part of the river and we're pulling men out already further down the line. And we've been talking about it myself, Christian, Jamie. We've been always discussing at what point do we stand at the front of the river and start pulling the young men out or even stopping them from jumping in the river or falling into the river. So we've always wanted to be a part of the prevention conversation, and it just had to be at the right time before we could launch it. And, you know, stars aligned and everything just worked out. Yeah, just to fall into place. We were approached by Wolverhampton Council. They asked us to sit on a steering group to help prevent serious youth violence. Off the back of that, we ended up writing an entire policy about how to end serious youth violence from a holistic point of view, from school, family, home, and the system point of view. So we tried to attack the problem from all of these angles, and we decided to go for the prevention angle. We developed this program called the ACC Way. We believe that a well-rounded man can be accountable, constructive, and can be compassionate. And so we want to instill that in these young people from early. And yeah, it's been going great so far. We have some really good engagement with the boys and some really good feedback from the schools as well.
SPEAKER_02The young men you're working with are at high risk of being excluded from school. They're getting involved in potential criminality, potential gang-related activity, but they also have multiple, what we would call adverse childhood experiences. Some parts of society have given up on them. They might feel that too, that sense of nihilistic youth rebellion that's really brewing in a lot of parts of the country, mate, as we know. How do you tell them that they're worth fighting for and they're capable of changing for the better?
SPEAKER_00We show them. We have lived experience mentors, lived experience facilitators who literally stand in front of them and tell them their stories, show their vulnerability. Tell the boys, we've been here and look where we are now, look what we're able to do at this point. So it's just evidence-based, giving them that hope, giving them that understanding that they actually deserve it. These boys that we're working with often are put in this glass box. They're told that they are to fit in and they need to be in there. And what we're saying is, fuck that. Let's smash the roof off it and let's shoot for the stars. You can be whoever and whatever you want to be in this world. So why choose to be what society is telling you that you will be or must be? Be whatever the heck you want to be, and do it with compassion, do it with love in your heart. Like we are, we've been there, we've been in a dark place, and this is how we've come out. And we want to give you that tool, that skill early before it gets bad for you too.
SPEAKER_02Given our part one and what we talked about, mate, A, how much of yourself do you see in these young men? And B, obviously protecting confidentiality, but has there been any one lad in particular whose story has mirrored your own quite starkly? But also you've been able to help him along the way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's always that air of helping little Jamie. We took a boy out on a hike yesterday, and just hearing the way that he interacts with the world, the way that he wants to be, or the things that he's been involved with made me made me sad to think that you know there's more boys, peers that he's around that are not got the same accessibility to positive male role models like we have, and I just the whole thing for me was I want to be the man that I needed when I was younger. And so yeah, it just made me sad to think that you know this boy could he needs it, he deserves it actually. And we've started to see young leaders pop up really keen to be constructive members of society, like really believing themselves that they can be the next CEO of, for example, an electrician firm. That's what he was talking about. He wants, that's what his ambition is now. And so it's really wonderful to see that now that they're looking to the future and they've got a little bit more aspiration than probably when they first arrived.
SPEAKER_02Off the back of this, you produce this report, you deliver it to the board of an organization called Safe at Wolverhampton, which is made up of some very big cheeses, and MMU now sits on that board too, which you are a part of. So you're a big man now. Wasn't long ago that you were little Jay, 13-year-old, 15-year-old, on that wrong path in life. How did you feel sitting down at that table with those powerful people from very different social classes, very different backgrounds? How would have young Jay reacted seeing you there, bro?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's just not something that you even contemplate happening, really. Or I never contemplated it happening. You know, this whole thing started by accident anyway. I had no ambitions when I invited people to come and sit at my table six years ago, six and a half years ago. There was no ambitions to be sat anywhere. You know, it's something's needed, let's do it. So to be sat around a table speaking to chief operating officers for the local council, to superintendents of the police force, to MPs, and genuinely having my voice heard and me representing them and them and them having their voice heard to these people and you know, actions being taken for the next meeting and seeing it being implemented, yeah, it's crazy, bruv. I would never have considered that would ever be where we were. And you know, it's just yeah, it's hard to get my head around, but I know that that's where we need to be sat as the mandate meet up. And if it's me that gets to be the voice for these men, then I just you know continues to keep thanking my stars. But truthfully, none of this work happens without the facilitators and the good men that are supporting and the good men who are running the sessions at this stage. I'm doing my best to make sure that they can do the serious work. So yeah, without them, none of this works anyway. So it's all well and good me being sat at a board meeting, but even if we weren't sat there, we'd still be doing the work, and it's the lads on the ground who are putting it in the most.
SPEAKER_02Well, you've gone from a small table to sitting at the top table, and you've stayed true to yourself and you've stayed representing the man there, mate. So credit to you. I want to talk now about a new program you developed alongside our mutual friend, our mutual close friend, the legend Duncan Craig OBE and his organization, We Are Survivors. It's this allyship program, this survivor ally program, I should say. How did you create this together and what did you want to achieve with it?
SPEAKER_00So, the whole premise about this is to create safe spaces where survivors of sexual harms know that they've got a space in the world where they can go and do mundane tasks that are usually anxiety crippling for people who are survivors to know that they can go into a space where their trauma can be understood and it will be a person-led space, a trauma-centered space. So being a survivor, things like getting your hair cut, being in a dentist chair, or even going to the GP can be difficult. Having a man or a woman over your shoulder on top of you examining you can feel quite daunting and terrifying and triggering for some people. And so Duncan is the brainchild for obviously a backing into the hilt. You come up with this wonderful idea where a survivor ally, which is a man dead meetup, pushes this to the general public, to professionals, to upskill professionals, give them a qualification ultimately, but then also they get a sticker for the window for their shop front, and then they get added to a map or a legend of survivor-friendly spaces. And so any survivor can go on the website, can click on the legend and find the different professional resources that are survivor-friendly.
SPEAKER_02There's so much potential with this, mate, and hopefully, what it can do is create this almost directory for male survivors wherever they are, whether it's masseurs, like you said, tattoo artists, dentists. How do you also, though, although it's early stages, avoid the potential dreaded postcode lottery here of provision?
SPEAKER_00Um, I'm not really sure. You know, the only thing we can do is just keep promoting it and pushing it and hoping that as many people as possible engage with the program, really want to get involved with it. Yeah, just got to be a lot of marketing, I guess, to make sure everybody hears about it and then they sign up. We want everybody from all different backgrounds to be able to step into it, or you know, people from different polls called from the ends. Every barber in the ends should have this. It upskills them, it gives them more information, but it also becomes then a unique selling point for them as well.
SPEAKER_02I want to talk now about an incredible positive we discussed off air, which is MMU's acquirement of five acres of land in Wolverhampton with a vision to create the UK's first ever nature space, specifically designed, tailored, and catered towards men and boys. Tell me how this amazing thing came about, mate.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. So it did come off the back of the Ute Den project running in Wolverhampton. We were operating out of a space there that unfortunately got taken away from us. Yeah, we got a little bit blindsided with that, unfortunately. And so, you know, we went to our commissioners at the council and we were pleading surely, surely there's an asset in Wolverhampton where we can deliver this thing. Yeah, man, and lo and behold, the old tree nursery, as it was once called, has been sat idle for three years in all its glory, overgrown, abandoned, and rotting away in some parts. Yeah, it's just the perfect, the perfect space for what we're trying to develop in the UK, but obviously West Midlands and and beyond. It's incredible, bro. It's got, like you said, five acres of space. It's got one pine woodland, one deciduous woodland that just spans the length of the whole property. There's a pond, fishing pond, there's a tree house, there's a huge field that will hopefully turn it into a football pitch within the next few months. There's a couple of buildings that are less savoury than others. Porter cabin that we want to eventually turn into a community cafe where even the passers-by that are going to the nature reserve across the road can come for a brew. And we can potentially be selling products that we've grown in one of the five polytunnels that we've got on site, and we've got apple trees and berries and all kinds of herbs growing in there. We've now got a gym set up in the space so the lads can come and get a workout, and the potential is just endless. We're kind of dreaming of like a nature-based youth club at the same time. So, you know, it's all just fitting in into the big dream of supporting men and boys to overcome trauma, to find safe space and belonging.
SPEAKER_02I said this to your fair mate, but like you just said there, the potential for this is absolutely huge. It has the potential to, in my opinion, change the men's mental health space for the better. Like you said, community. You could even make a summer camp program for young lads to come away completely. You've got the idea of personal achievement if they make products that you then sell to customers and passers by, employment opportunities, like the list goes on and on and on. You could, in theory, have an MMU nature space in every town and city in the UK like this. Is that the dream, bro?
SPEAKER_00Bro, if that would be the absolute dream, yeah. 100%.
SPEAKER_02I want to now move on to another amazing achievement. But it's not something you did, it's something that Brother Lee did for you. Previous guest Lee Edwards. He ran an incredible 10 marathons in 10 days. Now, when I first checked in with him, he was just about to do it, but he's now done it. You charted every single step of the journey. First of all, how did you feel listening to Lee's pod, knowing his journey prior to the world knowing? And then, second of all, take me through that journey of when you saw him do all of those marathons for you, for the Mandem, and eventually becoming one knee Lee by the end of it, bless him.
SPEAKER_00Lee's a superhero, man. Lee's just what he'd been through, what he's overcome, you know, his peers that have gone through their troubles and the effect that that's had on him. But for him to take that and to turn it into his motivation, into his drive to save lives, literally save lives, all he wanted to do was continue to help Mandem meet up to support more men, and he's done that. You know, he raised over £8,000, which in our world is £8,000 is the difference between the charity shutting down and the charity continuing for another three, four months, you know what I mean? So he's yeah, he's unstoppable. We call him Lee Goggins, one knee lee. He's absolutely different gravy of a man, different gravy, and he's already got his eyes set on on the next challenge. Yeah, he's just an incredible human, and you know, me being there with him on the journey was an honour to see him just pulling up, turning round the corner, me waving a camera in his face, setting up the camping bed so he can at least lie down for three minutes before he gets up and carries on his next leg of the marathon. But yeah, man, couldn't be prouder of him. Couldn't be prouder of him.
SPEAKER_02On that final marathon he did, you, the Wolves, MMU leaders, Christian, everyone else, organised a big welcoming party for him. Just tell my listeners about that day and how you felt when he came round that final corner, bro.
SPEAKER_00Well, you know what? It's hard to even put into words. Just hundreds of supporters there. Seeing him turning that corner at the front of the pack with his boys behind him, also who ran the last leg with him. It's hard to put into words. The man them all chanting, and you know, he was electric, like proper goosebumps stuff, even now thinking about it. So yeah, it's hard to put into words, and then obviously we played some football afterwards in in celebration, and you know, it was yeah, such a powerful, powerful day.
SPEAKER_02There's lots of things the public can see MU doing and continue to do so, mate. However, there are many more things behind the scenes, as we both know, you've taken the steps on as an organization to progress that they won't see. So, what progress have you made here that safeguards the future of the Mandem?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a brilliant question. We've been busy recruiting trustees for one. It's a big part of Mandem Meetup's journey. We've well, at the end of 2025, we really pushed to start bringing in some heavy hitters. We've definitely done that, you know. We brought in people who are, well, I'll tell you about him. Andrew, his name's Andrew. He's the current chair for another wonderful organization called George House Trust, and they support people affected by HIV and AIDS. He's a wonderful man. He used to be a priest in a past life, and um, his teacher was none other than Mother Teresa. That's the kind of levels that we're messing with here. He's a superstar, you know what I'm saying? We've recruited a lovely lady called Stella, MBE, who earned her title through the work that she did in Liverpool Prison, where she reduced suicide from 15 a week to zero, or attempts of life from fifteen to zero through rigorous strategy and governance. She's an absolute powerhouse. Billy Andrews, psychotherapist. Absolute brood yellow. You get me? She's uh our safeguarding lead. She's amazing, really, really, really passionate, strong personality. And we've brought in Anthony, and he again he's a treasurer, and he's been a treasurer for George House Trust and other charities in the past. So, you know, really strengthening those board is like the overseers. That's who I report to. They're my line managers and hold responsibility over the charity. And so bringing them in to oversee the structure, governance, and strategy stuff is, you know, it's been a game changer. Yeah, and then we've started to recruit now back of house staff, which has been essential. Man like Tom is an absolute G, he really supports me and he takes a lot of weight off my shoulders and he's much better at it than I am. So especially when it comes to like admin and being a brainiac, he is the brainiac, you know what I'm saying? So yeah, and then now we've got a plan, we've got budgets, we've got all of these things in place where we can start to see a path and a future forward. We're continuously growing, we're implementing projects strategically so that we can continue to support the most underserved men in the community and boys in the community. And you know, as we have been doing, we're just one of a kind. There's not many people that's hitting all of the things that we're hitting this way, and having like strong partners like We Are Survivors, the Wolves Foundation, having strong partners like Modern Tribe. These are the guys who are helping us grow forward and keeping us rooted in community, but also helping us deliver really strong, really influential programs.
SPEAKER_02What you said there about taking on more staff sort of builds me onto my next question nicely, mate, which is that because you've taken on more staff, you're now responsible not just for a lot of men and boys, but for people's livelihoods now. So how have you adapted to that responsibility, that added responsibility, I should say? And B, how does that feel and how does that feel to reflect on, given where MMU started at your house, round a table, group of six or seven lads, to now an absolute pillar of the community in the Northwest, in the Midlands, and hopefully fingers crossed the UK more broadly very soon.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man, it's stressful. Stressful, man. Can't even lie, bruv. So it's good that I've got, you know, some good mentors around me, but the whole thing is I've man's been a hustler from day one, and now I've got to hustle twice as hard just to make sure everybody's eating. For me, that was the whole goal, you get me, was to create an ecosystem where men would come to our service, they'd find balance in their lives, and then they go on to lead other men to find balance. And I always saw myself as this Robin Hood figure where I'd be drawing down funding from the powers that be and those who are richer than we are to be able to support and give a good wage, not even a real living wage, a real, real living wage, you get me, where people are actually able to have that work-life balance and eat good and feel good about themselves. And truthfully, if everybody had a decent wage and didn't have to worry about the bills, I bet their mental health would be ten times better than what it is. So that's a big, big part of this. It will continue to be a big part of my journey is to make sure everybody's eating well.
SPEAKER_02I want to now talk, before we reflect, on a couple of issues in the men's space you were keen to talk about, mate. The first, and it's a big one, was the publication of the first ever men's health strategy by any UK government, which was announced by the UK Labour government in November 2025. So, what's your take on it six months since its publication, bro?
SPEAKER_00No, it's wonderful that we have it. It's really important that we have it. It's a shame that we had to wait till 2025 for men and boys to have a health strategy, which is just crazy. But it's here, it's a 10-year plan, which again is I feel like it's the government playing it safe. But we're seeing changes, we're seeing things being implemented, we're seeing that you know funding's being made available, which is essential. The strategy itself talks about the importance of peer support spaces, it talks about the importance of shoulder-to-shoulder work, it talks about the importance of being out in nature and supporting men that way. It's almost like recognition or us feeling acknowledged for we've been doing this thing, and now it's like, okay, so what we are doing is what is working, and you know, there's proof in the pudding now that there's a whole health strategy to suggest that these guys have had it bang on from day one, and so that's affirming. People can be pessimistic about it, but you know, I'm an optimist, I'm not an idealist. I always look for the best in all situations, and no, I'm just glad we've got it, and I'm glad to see that there's moves being made to improve it and moves being made to support grassroots community groups like Mindem Meetup and and others that are really on the ground doing this.
SPEAKER_02That's been a big positive. Unfortunately, there has been a negative in that the continuation of male survivors of abuse to be counted as women, i.e., victims of violence against women and girls. Now, Duncan, our mutual friend, has been campaigning tirelessly for way longer than me to change this. You're now involved too with that campaigning work. What's the state of play here, mate? Has there been any change or movement on this issue that that gives me a bit more hope?
SPEAKER_00So, yeah, in December last year, they released the new Vorge strategy, Violence Against Women and Girls Strategy. And in the past, men and boys have contributed to the statistics that have been implemented within previous VOG data. So, what that means is that men who are survivors of sexual harms or men who are survivors of domestic abuse and honor-based killings and and other such crimes are technically categorized as victims of violence against women and girls, which in itself creates a stigma. Why would any men want to present when they're going to be categorized as a victim of violence against women and girls? And it just doesn't even make sense to say it out loud for people who are hearing this the first time, you know, it's mad in it, but it's true. And what we've been blessed with, I say that sarcastically, is the new violence against women and girls strategy, where men are now acknowledged as explanatory notes. So an add-on, where they admit that they're using our data as yeah, well, it dilutes the argument for violence against women and girls, but also it just makes things messy, man. Men and boys deserve their own gender-based violence strategy, not to take away from violence against women and girls, because that's so important, and we really flipping need it. But they deserve their own as well, because men and boys are victims in their own right, and it's not the same as it is for women. It's their own, and they deserve that as a minimum, and they don't deserve to be explanatory notes, and they don't deserve to be a second thought or considered later. They deserve their own. So yeah, that's what we're pushing for now, along with Duncan and the Association for Health and Wellbeing for men and boys. Yeah, Association for Male Health and Wellbeing is the new name for the coalition of men and boys. So yeah, we're pushing forward with that. Ali Fogg, Badman, Duncan, Badman. They're pushing, pushing, working hard, just bringing it to the table every time, and we've just got to keep campaigning for it.
SPEAKER_02Let's reflect on this part of your journey with Mandenbro. So, first of all, in the last two years since we checked in, what's been your proudest achievement on this part of your journey?
SPEAKER_00Oh God. Proudest achievement. It's always keeping men alive. Always has been, always will be. Flipping neck. It's gotta be that, but that feels too generic. What we're proud of. I'm proud to say that 100% of our facilitators, our service users are proud of that. Proud to have been nominated for the King's Award this year, proud of that. Proud to have been given five acres of land. You know, all of these things, you know, it's a home for the mandem. You can see how people are rallying to be there. Yo, there's just too much to be proud of to simplify it, but yeah, I guess they're the parts of yeah, I give you that rather than the generic keeping men alive, but that is definitely the most proudest part.
SPEAKER_02Two things can be true at once, bro, for sure. And as a final question, before we move on to your continued mental health journey, what has this chapter of Mandem taught you about yourself that's perhaps been different from part one?
SPEAKER_00Oh um Maybe that I'm capable of more than I know.
SPEAKER_02We've checked in about the Mandem. Let's go and check in once more about your mental health journey, brother. So, how'd you reflect on your part one? What feedback did you receive? And who's the Jamie we meet now?
SPEAKER_00Oh the Jamie that you meet now, yo he's a father, yeah, he's a survivor, he's a someone that's winging it same time, making the most of life, and yeah, man. Yeah, it's a mad time at the moment. I'm a husband as well. It's all good. Loads of good feedback from part one, a lot of people. I think having these conversations with you, it helps people to see the rest of me, you know what I mean? So it's nice I get this opportunity to talk about it and then people can find out, you know, what's going on between my ears.
SPEAKER_02It's really funny, mate, because I got a haircut yesterday and I was speaking to my barber and he just asked me about my weekend plans. And sometimes I mention Ven and sometimes I don't, because sometimes it can go quite deep quite quickly. And I actually sent him your pod, funnily enough. And I said, I think he said, Oh, have you interviewed guys from the ends? I was like, Yeah, but don't worry about that. I've interviewed guys from the ends. I gave him a link to your pod so I can already see the impact that it's having. But was there particularly one DM or piece of feedback that you got from the pod that maybe surprised you or maybe you kind of really held close to you now as well? You know what, bro?
SPEAKER_00Nothing that really sticks out to me, but just knowing that it's a resource that people can go to is the most important thing, in it. Just knowing that it's out there in the ether. And we may never even know, bruv. You get me? People will watch it and would never even come to us and tell us what's the what what they got from it. So just having it out there, being able to tell my story and be honest, is that's the most important thing for me.
SPEAKER_02You mentioned it there, but on December 17th, 2024, you became a father to a little boy. Tell me how your life, your world, your outlook changed from that moment, mate.
SPEAKER_00You know what, bro? It's just most dads you'll speak to will probably say the same thing, but there's no words that will prepare you for the amount of joy that you get from being a dad. None. It's like, what is the universe? It's that kind of question. You just don't know. You can't fathom the feeling until it happens to you, until you experience it. It just it's as hard as I thought it was gonna be, but the joy from it is way more than I ever thought I would ever receive. So man, it's been hard, very hard, especially with my wife. That's been a real test on our relationship. I've had to adapt the way that I am, the way that I operate, the way that I move, to make sure that she feels more supported or as supported as possible. Whereas in the past I might be more free-spirited, so to speak, and just going about achieving things and ticking boxes and making sure stuff's happening. But now I have to reassess and relearn what it actually means to be a husband and what it means to be a father. And so I go to work, call it work now. So now I go to work to pay my bills. The only reason I go to work to pay my bills is so that I can come home and actually do the real work with my family. Leaving this house and going and, you know, sitting at my laptop or whatever to bring an income into the house is we only go to work, it's a means to an end. If we don't go to work, if we don't bring an income, we can't put the lights on, we can't eat our food, and that's all well and good. But the real work is here, it's in the house, it's having difficult conversations with my partner, it's having difficult realizations, it's about holding my hands up and being accountable, but most importantly, doing something about it. Like, what are you gonna do about it? How are you really gonna show up? There were signs when I'd be coming home from work, but work's tough, man, mentally, I'm thinking all the time and having difficult conversations, or I'm up a mountain and I'm doing literally physical activity that's really difficult. I come back and I'd be knacking and I just want to lie down. But I would never go into my office, I would never open the laptop, or back in the day, I would never go on site or into my workplace and not look for something to do, not look for a problem to solve. So now when I come home from work, I could park that side and then I'm like in the house, I'm like, right, what needs to be done in here? Where does the work begin in here? Is it washing dishes? Is it playing with my son? Is it cooking the food? Is it this? Is it that look and solve problems so that my wife, who's already working 24-7 looking after my son, doesn't have to think about that or doesn't have to communicate it to me to create even more stress for her. And then that tension builds up. If I can dissipate the tension, solve the problem before it's uh arose, then we live a much better life, a much more in-sync life, one where she's has less stress and I'm actually contributing in a positive way into the house rather than coming and kicking up my feet because I've had a hard day, you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_02I want to talk about those challenges in a second, mate, because it's really important that you've said that. I really admire your honesty for speaking about this as well, because as we know, parenting isn't sunshine and rainbows. However, I want to take a step back here. You came from a broken home, you spoke about that in part one, you have broken that cycle now. And touch wood, yeah, you'll continue to do so. Did that come into your mind at any point when you became a dad for the first time? Did you think, oh, all of that stress and troubles that we went through have now changed the narrative?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, 100%. It's conversations that we have all the time with my partner. We see it. I still see the same cycles happening in my family now, and I see the same cycles happening with my son and his grandparents, and I see things happening where I'm like, oh, that's what we went through. And 100% I've squashed it from the things that I felt or the things that I experienced. Luffy will never feel that, will never go through that, will never experience it. No way, not a chance. I put in too much work. And even now when me and my wife are having disagreements, I put a pin in it there and then. Let's talk about it in a bit when Luffy's asleep, we'll discuss it. And even if it's heated, we just have to squash it as quickly as possible. And even if it looms over the household for a few hours, that's okay because it needs to be that way for Luffy's sake.
SPEAKER_02Your mum is loving life as a nan for your cherub. And I was pleasantly surprised to learn that your dad's come back into the picture as a granddad. So, given what we discussed in part one, how special has the former been with your mum to share? And also, what have those emotions been like with your dad? You know, have you had to learn forgiveness in a way that you weren't expecting to, and to be able to give your son the best grandparents possible?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. So my dad's a good human, yeah. I mean, like really good man, generous, kind. I definitely get my traits of that from him. Puts himself behind everybody else just to make others feel good, but for whatever reason, he's distant, he can be yeah, hard to come by and doesn't always show up, and not always on time, or rarely on time. And so, you know, some of that's still present now with Luffy. You know, he can go a couple of weeks without seeing his granddad. But like yesterday, I had to go into work out of the blue, and Luffy had his first dentist appointment, and my dad rang his client, my dad's a plasterer, rang his client, said I'm gonna come a little bit later on, I've got to take my grandson to the dentist. So he's showing up, you get me, he's putting in the effort, he's really trying. That for me, man, it just makes me feel proud to see him, you know, like loving Luffy, giving him hugs and kisses. Uh, we never really got hugs and kisses when we were younger. I think he didn't start hugging us until we was in our late 20s or something. I don't know what changed. I don't know if I don't know if we started forcing him with the hugs and then he he liked it or what. But it's nice to see him being that affectionate with him. And and like my mum's always been a carer, you get me. My mum is proper nurturer, she loves babies, she loves her grandchildren so much, and she she would literally die for them. She would put her life on the line for them. She's got no boundaries, bruv. You know what I'm saying? So, because she doesn't have boundaries, she pushes our boundaries, and it's like, yo, mum, come on. Like, we know you're just doing it out of love, but you need you to respect what we're saying and also respect yourself because my sisters they can take the piss a little bit. But seeing the way that she's with Luffy, she loves him and she just wants to care for him, and she sees him most weeks, like almost every week, if not twice a week. So she really puts in the time and and the effort, and she's uh also somebody that we can call on, even just ringing us and saying she's got food for us, we just go pick up the food and then bring it home and eat it, or she looks after us still, and she's just a superstar, my woman. We've sipped in through her own stuff, but she still cares deeply, always trying her best.
SPEAKER_02I heard this quote on another podcast from a guy, and it stayed with me for quite a long time actually. Although I'm not a parent, and although although I want to be, it certainly shapes my attitude towards life now, and it will continue to do so if I have kids, which is the most important thing you can do in life is forgive your parents. How much has that shaped you as you became a dad mate?
SPEAKER_00Don't forgave my parents from time ago. Had to. You can't heal on a journey. Yeah, if you got hate for your parents, man. I learned, even though there was resentment there and I vowed to not be like them in certain ways, I had to understand that they were just trying. They didn't have a clue either. They were young. When they had me, my mum was 19, my dad was like 20 something. Wow. I couldn't even imagine having a child, having to take care of a child as a teenager is wild, is crazy. I don't even know how she survived it. And then she had another one. I don't know how they did it. And she was never nurtured as a child to the extent, not even close to the extent that she nurtured us. She was always trying her best. And my dad, he weren't ready to be a father at 20 something. He was just loving his life at the hacienda and having a nice time. And what 20 summit wasn't, you get me? So, you know, had to forgive him. They didn't know what they were doing. How many stories you're gonna hear from that, from the ends, you get me? So it's just yeah, the same old cycle. But yeah, I've done forgive them time ago. Really, really acknowledged that they tried their best, and although it left scars, it could have been so much worse.
SPEAKER_02I want to move on to another big positive, which is in September 2025, you got married. I saw Dunk got the invite. It was a lovely picture you put on socials. I was absolutely loving that, mate, when I saw the picture of you both. Tell me about the day from your perspective, bro.
SPEAKER_00For me and my wife, we're not grandiose, we don't have this ambition. We never wanted a big ceremony, we just wanted the most important people in our life to be present, and that's what we did. It was less than 20 people, really intimate. Went for Ethiopian food afterwards, so not even the mad banquet, you get me, it was just good food, stuff that we love. It was just about us and celebrating our love with the people that that we care about the most. No fakery, no trying to impress people, no putting on a show, just genuinely good people that care about us, that have shown up for us, and that's what we wanted it to be. So it was the perfect day. It was just exactly what we wanted. We bought a wedding cake that we ate at home with our friends and family. He was a lovely man. He was so nice.
SPEAKER_02Obviously, it's meant to be every couple's best day of their life, and obviously, you and your wife had an amazing time together. However, was there ever a moment during it in the middle, maybe at the end, when you took a second to really recognise how far you've come, brother?
SPEAKER_00Nah, I'll be honest, there wasn't. That never happened at all. Having my son bring the ring down the aisle with one of my brethren that's been with me for a long time, one of my best friends, you get me, my best man on the day. No, that's yeah, that was special. Didn't think about myself once that day. Just, yeah, it was just all about the family, her, my missus, you get me with a runner car. It was all about them. So yeah, no, I didn't consider myself at all then.
SPEAKER_02I've got one more question before we reflect, which is you spoke earlier in the pod, mate, about accountability and these principles that you're trying to embed throughout Mandem and throughout the men that you help. How has fatherhood shaped that and also vice versa?
SPEAKER_00Hmm. So being a dad, you've got to show up no matter what. You've got to be able to perform, you've got to be able to be available, you've got to be able to own your mistakes, understand them, try not to do them again for the the next time. And being a father just puts everything into perspective. It made me see how small the world is. Like the world is within these four walls, you get me? It's not as big as as I once thought it was. Everything that matters is here now. And so I've got to grow a world, or grow my son in a harsh world to be compassionate, to be constructive and be accountable. And I've got to show him how to do that. And I've got to be leading from the front with that. I want him to be a man that changes the harsh world to be a brighter, lighter world, somewhere where other people feel safe, some place where people feel connected. I want him to be a library, get me someone who brings love. His name's Lufian, that means to love. That's what he needs to do in this world. That's what he's gonna do, and he's gonna do that by watching me do that.
SPEAKER_02That's incredible, mate. And it's it's quite a sad reality, actually, that we almost have to insulate or provide a counter-narrative to the one that some young boys are currently facing in the world, instead of, I don't know, strengthening it or turbocharging the right narrative, for example. But that's a separate podcast. I want to reflect now, mate. So similar question as the first topic what has this part of your mental health journey also taught you about yourself?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's taught me that it's more important to seek out advice, to seek out support, to seek out help more than ever before. Sometimes I'd be guilty of thinking that I I know the answer and I'll just run with that. But now I know that actually if I seek counsel from a friend, a mentor, a professional first before I make a decision or make a choice, then and it helps me settle. I have to make more difficult decisions than I ever have done at this stage, and that has a you know mad effect on my mental health. The anxiety is crazy. But knowing that by speaking to others, it reinforces that the right decisions and making the right decisions for the bigger picture, and that's that helps me. So having that support network, my own support network, is the key.
SPEAKER_02That is a brilliant, brilliant way to end it, mate. Jamie D, thank you so much for coming back on the Just Checking In podcast and talking to me, bro.
SPEAKER_00My guy, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure as always.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's all we've got time for in this episode of the Just Checking In pod. A big thank you to Jay for being my special guest and for letting me check back in with him. I'll put some links to where you can find out more about all the incredible work MMU are doing and follow the Mandem on social media in the show notes. As always, thank you to all the vendors who've tuned into this episode and checked in. Remember, if you've liked what you've heard, give it a share on social media. Tell your friends, family, or work colleagues about us. Give us a rating and five-star review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you want to support us further, go to patreon.com slash eventhelpuk or make a one-off donation to our PayPal. All of those links are on our link tree. That's linktr.ee slash vent helpuk. We hope to check in with you again very soon. And remember, guys, it is always okay to vent.
