The Just Checking In Podcast
The Just Checking In Podcast is another step in VENT’s mission to give people a voice, change the conversation around mental health and provide an outlet where everyone, but especially men and boys, can express themselves. In each pod we check in with a special guest. We have a natter and a chat about all things mental health as well as anything and everything else they're passionate about. If it helps that person with their mental health, we'll discuss it!
The Just Checking In Podcast
JCIP #359 - Kenny Bartonshaw
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In episode 359 of The Just Checking In Podcast we checked in with Kenny Bartonshaw.
Kenny is the Founder and Director of Headspace FC C.I.C.
Headspace FC is a weekly football group for adults (18+) who want to stay active, meet people, and take a break from the daily grind.
Their mantra is: Play. Connect. Support.
Based in Stoke-On-Trent in Staffordshire, Headspace FC began as a kickabout in April 2024 with Kenny and a group of 8-10 male friends who were either playing in veterans teams or hadn’t played in many years due to life commitments.
The group grew from there and in June 2025, Headspace FC became a Community Interest Company or C.I.C.
In 2025, they secured £9,000 in funding from Sports England which they used to hire more facilities and pitches. They grew from 1 session a week with 8 people to 3 sessions a week with up to 60 people taking part.
With players ranging from 18-60 years old, Headspace FC is strengthening community bonds in the area and building bridges. Even Kenny’s wife has made connections and friends through its creation!
In this episode, we discuss the genesis of Headspace FC and its journey from the first kickabout to now, the rapid growth of it and how Kenny balances it alongside his full-time job as an assistant headteacher of a primary school, and being a father of three children.
For Kenny’s mental health journey, we discuss his career in football coaching and teaching.
Kenny left college and did an apprenticeship at Stoke City FC to become a full-time football coach.
He worked as a coach for around 10-12 years as a senior community coach. He also ran coaching clubs and achieved an UEFA B licence too.
However, he was working very long hours and for very little pay so at 22 years old, he left Stoke City and transitioned into teaching after his wife, who also works in teaching told him about a role for a SEND Teaching Assistant job at the secondary school she worked at and told him he should apply for it.
He successfully applied and combined his job in teaching alongside completing a degree in Sports Coaching and Management with a module in child studies at the Open University.
After two and a half years at that school, he moved into primary school teaching, completed his degree and then underwent his teacher training through Schools Direct and has worked at the role he is in for over 11 years, working his way up to the role of Assistant Headteacher.
We discuss this journey, the role his mentor provided in giving him the confidence to become a teacher and stick with it, a negative experience he had at another football club, and how he reflects on that journey now.
We finish by discussing his mum’s cervical cancer diagnosis when he was in his early 20s, her death from it in 2008, and the impact that had on his mental health as a young man.
We also discuss the grief of losing his best friend in 2018, also from cancer, when Kenny was 32 years old and the impact that had on him too.
As always, #itsokaytovent
You can find out more about Headspace FC C.I.C here: https://headspacefc.co.uk/.
You can follow them on social media below:
TRIGGER WARNING: this podcast contains a deep discussion about grief and loss, which some listeners may find distressing or upsetting, so please listen with caution.
Support Us:
Trigger Warning. This podcast contains a deep discussion about grief and loss, which some listeners may find distressing or upsetting. So please listen with caution. Hi Venters, welcome back to another episode of the Just Checkin' In Podcast. I'm your host, Freddie Cocker, and this podcast is brought to you by Vent, a place where everyone, but especially men and boys, can open up about their mental health issues, break down stigmas, and start conversations. In each episode, I check in with a special guest. We have a natter and a chat about all things mental health as well as anything and everything else they are passionate about. If it helps that person with their mental health, we discuss it. My special guest for this episode is Kenny Bartonshaw. Kenny is the founder and director of Headspace FC CIC. Headspace FC is a weekly football group for adults over the age of 18 who want to stay active, meet people, and take a break from the daily grind. They play casually, without pressure, it's just good games, good company, and a focus on mental well-being. Whether you're returning to the game or just looking for something new, everyone is welcome. And their mantra is Play Connect Support. Based in Stoke on Trent in Staffordshire, Headspace FC began as a kickabout in April 2024 with Kenny and a group of around 8 to 10 male friends who were either playing in veterans' teams or hadn't played in many years due to commitments like work, fatherhood, and others. It went so well that they decided to do it again the following week, but this time only six lads turned up. They then wanted to open it up to more people, and over 20 people turned up over the next few weeks. The group became so big that they had to start turning people away, and in June 2025, Headspace FC became an official community interest company, or CIC. From there, Headspace FC continued to grow, and in 2025 they secured £9,000 in funding from Sports England, which they used to hire more facilities and pitches. They grew from one session a week with eight people to three sessions a week with up to 60 people taking part. They have space for up to 100 people a week now and have over 160 people in the WhatsApp group as well. Since becoming a CIC, they have also collaborated with other men's mental health organizations in the area, including Man Time, the Stoke branch of Andy's Man Club, and North Staffordshire Mind 2, signposting these players to these organizations and others which are appropriate for the individual. With players ranging from 18 to 16 years old, Headspace FC is strengthening community bonds in the area and building bridges. Even Kenny's wife has made connections and friends through its creation. In Christmas 2025, they also launched a parent and child event in partnership with Kenny's football team, Stoke City, and the community foundation they run, raising £300 for mental health charities and 30 parents and 30 children in attendance. In 2026, their target is to organise around three to four charity games as well. In this episode, we discuss the genesis of Headspace FC and its journey from the first kickabout to now, the rapid growth of it, and how Kenny balances it alongside his full-time job as an assistant headteacher of a primary school, being a father of three children, and we talk about the impact Headspace has had on the players who play for it, particularly the men, and the exciting projects it has going forward. For Kenny's mental health journey, we discuss his career in football coaching and teaching. Kenny left college and did an apprenticeship at Stoke City FC to become a full-time football coach. He worked as a coach for around 10 to 12 years as a senior community coach, which involved finding talented children from around 5 to 12 years old in schools, coaching them and running development centres with the aspiration that some would make it into the academy system at the football club. He also ran coaching clubs and achieved a new Waifer B licence too. However, he was working very long hours and for very little pay, so at 22 years old, he left Stoke City and transitioned into teaching after his wife, who also works in teaching, told him about a role for an SEND teaching assistant job at the secondary school she worked and told him he should apply for it. He did, he got it, and he then combined his job in teaching alongside completing a degree in sports coaching and management with a module in child studies included at the Open University. It was a six-year course, but he crammed it into just three years, and after two and a half years at that school, he moved into primary school teaching, completed his degree, and then underwent his teacher training through Schools Direct and has now worked to the role he is in for over 11 years, working his way up to the role of assistant head teacher. We discussed this journey, the role his mentor provided in giving him the confidence to become a teacher and stick with it, a negative experience he had at another football club, and how he reflects on that journey now. We finished by discussing his mum's cervical cancer diagnosis when Kenny was in his early 20s, her death from it in 2008, and the impact that had on his mental health as a young man. We also discussed the grief of losing his best friend in 2018, also from cancer when Kenny was 32 years old, and the impact that had on him too. So this is how my conversation with Kenny Bartonshaw went. Kenny, welcome to the Just Checking In Pod. Thank you so much for letting me check in with you, mate. I'm not sure how I came across Headspace FC now, but I'm so pleased I did because you are doing amazing work in Stoke in the Staffordshire area. Thank you for the work you're doing in men's mental health, mate, and fighting the good fight. How are you on this Sunday morning, brother? Yeah, thanks for having us on, mate. And yeah, great. I think it was uh Instagram, I think, at some point you sent me a message on. So yeah, no, thank you. And thanks for everything you're doing as well. You're very welcome, mate. We have got so much to talk about, and judging by our call-off air, you absolutely love a chat. So without further ado, are you ready to start the show and talk all about your amazing journey? Yeah, let's go before it went out. Let's start the pod with the reason we're speaking today, mate, which is your baby, Headspace FC. The listeners can't see, but you've got amazing branding on right now, so that'll do well for the social clips. Take me back to the beginning, if you can. Tell me how one kickabout with 10 lads in April 2024 was the genesis for where you are today. Yeah, so it's all kind of happened by accident. It's kind of just snowboard, but yeah, we started in 2024. It actually all became a kickabout just because my daughter wanted to play football and I took her for a session. I hadn't played for 10 years until my oldest football wasn't alive. She went to get into football, met an old mate who was a major of a team, played for them for a bit and couldn't commit. So me and my brother decided to just have a kickabout and get some of the lads that we used to play Sunder League football with together. And it kind of went from there. So we had 10 of us. Went to the pub after, let's do it again next week. It was good to get together again and see each other. The following week there was eight, and then the following week there was seven. So get into about an hour 40. Running around a football pitch and then being dead for three days after because you couldn't walk. It was great. But so we advertised on Facebook for get a few more people to come about, and there's nothing really in the area that's a casual kick about it, so join the league and power league and that sort of stuff, and it's a bit over competitive. So they went from there, and following from that, we had like 20 odd people come in, and then we got to the Christmas time, and we're like, well, we've got a bit of money that we've got in the banks, people paid the subs, and we're not used it for the pictures just yet. So we decided to team up with a local mental health group called Man Time. So they're based in Stone, but I we know them through the guy who set it up originally, set it up in memory of a lot of lads in the Stone area where we're from as well. So we raised some money for them, we had some football shirts made, and then in the June we became a CIC, so June 2025, about 10 months ago, and then it kind of just went a bit nuts. And we went from having 20 players once a week to now having over a hundred players that turn up every week. We've got 215 members, so it's kind of gone a bit crazy. We do three sessions a week now as well. We've got extra pitches in the menus as well. So yeah, it's gone a bit crazy as a it's now a full-time job on top of a full-time job, but it's been amazing and it's been nice to see, and the impact it's having is great as well, not just on the lads that come along, but on myself as well. You're a father of three, mate. You're also a senior teacher in a very important role. You have a busy professional life, and then you also have a busy personal life. And I'm very keen to talk to all men about the importance of finding their release valve, right? And that could be anything. It could be a hobby, an interest, it could be therapy, it could be none of the two, right? What were these sessions having on you as a release valve personally? Yeah, I think personally for me, previously like football was my life before kids. I was coaching, I was playing every day, I was doing whatever. So I think just being able to get back together with friends, have a run around, a bit of that exercise as well, the indoor things you get from that as well is always helpful. But yeah, just the fact that having a laugh and having a joke with people, and it's kind of the camaraderie you get from football and things as well. So that's been probably the main thing for me, and the fact it's giving me the time to have that break from work at night and have that break from things because I'm doing stuff on the headspace side of things instead. I remember we had our chat off air, mate, and you were saying that your wife came or was watching one of your games at one point. Maybe it wasn't headspace, maybe it was previous to that, and she said how different you were. I hope it was a compliment in a different way. Did that make it easier for her to see the vision about what you wanted to achieve with other men through Headspace as well? Yeah, so yeah, she used to come watch me play Sunder League football, which is always entertaining. I've played at different levels and stuff, but we played Sunder League when we first met, she came in a couple of them games, and it was like, well, I was always quite a quiet, pretty gone with things sort of person. And then on the football pitch, I was capturing the team, I ran the team, so I was the one who said I was the first First time tackles! Yeah, flying in with headers and tackles and screaming at everyone and telling everyone where to go, and stuff. It's like you're completely different. And walk walk on the pets and you'll sit and chill on the pub after. But it's like, yeah, she was like, Oh, you're a really different sort of person. Like, it's nice to see that side, and then even the other day, actually, she organised a surprise birthday party for me the other day, and um one of the lads who helps from the group organised some of the football lads to come along, and she's like, It's really nice to see like a mixture of people that came along that wouldn't have known each other without what you're doing. So, yeah, I think she didn't realise the impact we were doing until then as well. So she's like she's seen how busy I'm doing stuff, but yeah, and then think that I kind of realised oh, we've got because there was a lad I used to work with, and there was lads who like in the 30s or late 40s, some of the 50s that were there at the party as well that she didn't even know I knew and they knew me and things, so it's quite nice that way as well. You've got personal experience of some really deep grief we're gonna talk about later in the pod, mate. But before we go further, you also had personal experience of suicide grief because your cousin took his own life in 2013. We're not gonna go into details about it, but he was only in his early 20s at the time, and you also knew or know several other men who have taken their own life in the past. How much did this drive your desire to make Headspace FC not just a success, but just build those community bonds and bridges that can stop men feeling isolated or alone and just stop more men becoming statistic, really? Yeah, I think for what is it? We want to be a community, we don't want to be a single group of just us. We've got a massive thing of especially me personally is that we've seen other like social groups start to come out with the woodwork a little bit and start to see good things, so we kind of we make sure we promote them as well. We've got these things on coming to us and we'll send people to you. It's just putting that whole thing because, like you said, we've had experience of suicide through family friends and things as well, especially in where we were growing up. There were several lads, unfortunately, that died in them circumstances that isn't great, and that there were people that we knew in the area and stuff um as well. So it was we wanted that we've actually got people in the group who've actually had thoughts and feelings that way, and they've said like being with us has helped because they've got somewhere they belong, a community they can be part of. Stoke itself is one of the highest portions in the whole country. There's there's it's like 16 in every hundred thousand as well, and obviously with football, we've got the one 90 minutes programme that Samaritans do as well, that is really useful to kind of get the idea across as well. So, yeah, with us it was use football to kind of get people together, and then we don't have a sit-down talk, it's just you've got somewhere to come along and come and belong. No pressure, things that way, yeah. So amazing, mate. By June 2025, you were turning people away from the session because you had so many people and you didn't have enough space, and a turning point comes when Headspace FC becomes a community interest company or CIC. I'm still trying to do it for Vent, I keep putting it off. It's hard to do when you're just one man, but I'll get around to it at some point. How did you feel when you'd achieved it, first of all? And how has it provided a springboard for you to expand, grow, and help more men in the Staffordshire area? We originally we went for it just because it was like we need to get some funding because we have to pay for pictures up front, we have to do things up front, and it was costing money out of my own pocket, which unfortunately I can't always pay. We were charging the lads to play as well, and if we only get 10 turn up, we have to pay more. So it's like, well, we need to get some money behind us, and I looked into it, and it was all a CIC is a great route to do it. We applied and we got it pretty quick, to be fair. I think I applied in the April and we got through in the June, I came through. It was kind of a sense of relief and a sense of pride that we've managed to actually remember, but they've got a company going. Um it's nothing. I need to pay you to do my application, mate. So yeah, we managed to get stuff going that way and things, and it was really nice to do just the knowing that we can then get that funding and apply for stuff. And we applied straight away and we got nearly £9,000 off Sport England, which has been amazing. That's meant we could pay for pictures up front if we needed to, but then we still charge the lads to play. But the money we then donate each month to the local charities that we support, we've then organised other events as well because that money's there. That officially runs out in June, and we've just been given another grant from a local brewery, Titanic Brewery Foundation. They've just given us over a thousand pounds to pay for five weeks' worth of sessions. So, again, just a thousand pounds great because it means that's for five weeks, so I don't have to worry about the subs. We can use them subs for other things as well. You have players from 18 to 16 years old, you've now got capacity for up to 100 players a week in your sessions, and there's over 160 people in the Headspace FC WhatsApp, but I imagine it's a bit lively at times. Yeah, it's actually great. We've got 215 as of today. Oh wow, amazing, mate. Amazing with the age range. How has Headspace FC bridged those generational divides in reality? Because, you know, at the moment, all social media is full of is pensions, triple lock, young people getting shafted. I'm one of those young people getting shafted for many reasons. How has it helped bridge those generational divides, do you think, mate? I think the fact that we have got 18-year-olds and we've got 60 plus year olds, it's been great because the kind of that lived experience that some of the older people have got it's been great, but then they've also seen things from the viewpoint of the younger generation that we've got in the group as well. And it's that kind of shared experience between the two of them. It's been brilliant that way. But it's also the fact that everyone's still a big kid at heart. It's great. So we everyone's there on the picture, and it's not how old you are, we can all have a laugh and a joke, and you can all have a little chat and stuff that way. And like I was saying before, we don't have a sit-down get together, but we're always there five to minutes before having a chat on the car, parking outside the pictures. And I did it the other day, I'd just stood back and watched for a bit, and it's just great to see like people that know a bit before that you've got a 60-year-old granddad talking to an 18-year-old of someone else, but not their relation, and then just having a proper chat like life in general, and about well, how's your day been, how's your week been, and that sort of stuff, and it's yeah, especially some of the young ones, well, they haven't got them older father figures and older things. I was one of them as well, so it's kind of having like someone to look up to and support as well. Yeah, just being part of the group. When you were on that sideline, were you present enough to take some credit for yourself about what you've achieved, mate? Um I'm always my biggest critic and stuff like that, so but it's I don't I don't know. I'm always like shy about the everyone's like we've done an ace, it's like, well, I'm not doing it for me, I'm doing it for everyone else. It's nice to say thank you to me, but I'd prefer the I like seeing everyone else enjoying themselves and that kind of thing. It's nice to step back and think, Well, we've done something really amazing here, and some of the conversations I've had with people has been great. But yeah, it's uh yeah, I never really sit back and think, Oh, we have some, I've done this, it's more that's nice to see this happening. So Well, I hope you do it after this, mate. This is your kick up the bum, right? Okay, here we go. Delegation is very important in a role like this, mate. I do Vent all through my own time. You do headspace all through your own time, but it's getting bigger. You need to delegate. And in the last year you brought your younger brother on board as a director, and another director called Zach who you brought on to. How have they eased the pressure on you in the day-to-day running of the organisation now? They've helped close. We've got another lad as well who volunteers called Nate, his sons, and my younger sons, you have never really spoken, but then we met through Headspace as well. But yeah, it's been great. So my younger brother Clef, he runs the session on a Tuesday night up in like Kids Group, which is near where he lives, and he's helped organise sponsorship for people as well for the group as well and things. I tend to do all the social media side of stuff and other website and organising the sessions and stuff myself. The admin people don't see, but it takes the most amount of work, mate. Yeah. And then Zach is there, he's great, he helps out as well. So, and the same with Natha, they'll like take over sessions if we're not there and stuff. So, previously, before we had them on board and we were a group, if I was on holiday, I'd cancelled the sessions because there was no one to run it. Whereas now I know if I go away, they'll help out and they'll run the sessions themselves and I'd still be in the group, but I don't need to worry about it if someone else is running it. Because the group's growing so much. We've got a core group of people who've been there since the start, even now, like let us know what you want us to do. If you're off, I'll go take the balls and bibs this week, we'll go wash the babies who will pull at this, or if I know off of like say three kids and they're out all the time and stuff, and we go away all the time at weekends and things. So if I can't make a session, they'll come and get the balls and they'll take them to so it's still running and stuff. So yeah, delegation's always been one of my weak points, but it's always something that I've always been if I wouldn't do it, why should someone else do it? So it's like a lead by example, I do that way. So I'm in the same boat, mate, but it's necessity now for you. There's a lot of talk right now, mate, about how difficult it is for young lads to get into the job market. You know, the job market is a very different place, even from when I entered it at 21, which was 11 years ago. Do you see Headspace as a place or opportunity where the young lads who come to you they might be able to give their hand at videography and start doing some videography work for Headspace? Maybe it's not paid, but at least they can get their hands on it, do some photography, but something that can give them some skills that they can do through Headspace that can make them go, right, here's something I can actually put on my CV that's tangible and can make me stand out and potentially get a job longer term. Yeah, so we've actually got one lad who is our official photographer, so he is a photographer by trade, but he's only 19, 20. So I contacted him about come get some of the pictures for us, and he now does it. So he's been taking pictures of Port Vale and things as well, and all some of that local as well. So he's actually really good at what he does. And he's one of the shyest lads you ever know with, but he's he's ace that unless he's what's happening, yeah. His dad comes down every week and watches and stuff as well. And we try and get him involved, he used to play as well. But yeah, so like Jaden's Ace will come and do that sort of stuff. But then I think we've had a couple lads like just volunteering and helping out that side, and it's like, Well, you volunteered, put that down, you've done something. So a lot of them, it's building that confidence to talk to someone as well because interview skills, mate. It's hard. I was I was okay naturally because I'm a chatty lad, so I did a lot of trial and error, but I never really struggled massively with interviews. But I know some lads who massively do. It's really hard for me. Yeah, I know we've got one lad who he never played football before when he came to us. He was pretty shy, came along basically to be his stepdad's taxi. But now he's one of the most regular people who comes all the time and he's ace. But I know from him he's just his confidence growing lows. The fact like he was doing like reviews for Holdy, he's a travel agent, but he's gone on Holdy for the first time on his own. The last one, the last travel agent left. So yeah, I think he went abroad on his own and did that, and he's done like reviews and stuff. He's like, I wouldn't have done that before. I've got I've grown a confidence and things that way and stuff. So it's given him that confidence, but also the fact that because we've got so much of a big group of people as well, we've got people that are in different trades and different professions that are like, oh, we need this job doing, and then someone might say, Well, I could do the job, I could do this, do this. So they'll like tug along and help each other out as well. But even like someone's card broke down the other day, one of the lads the mechanics so he drove down and helped him out. So it's like it's that sort of things we've got. Hey, Headspace LinkedIn network, mate. It's great. I love it, mate. I love it. It's so important though. So well done to you. I want to talk briefly before we reflect on a project that you did, which is with Stoke City Football Club, where you used to work. We'll talk about that in a bit. And through those links, you launched a really important parenting event in partnership with their foundation. 30 parents, 30 kids attended. How did it come about? What was the objective of it, and what did you achieve? Yes, we've actually done two of them now. Wow, amazing. Yeah, they've been great. So the first one we did just at Christmas, the second one just before Easter. So it came about basically with my own teaching background, the school I'm in was in one of the most deprived parts of the city. Not a lot of positive parental role models or parental involvement with children and things as well. I think for my own background, my own kids, it was I've always tried to be involved as much as I can in what they're doing. I'm always taxi for the daughter and things, so it's it's great. But it was more about we wanted to give someone an opportunity to do something positive, give us a free event, didn't have to pay, they just paid a donation, then donate that to charity as well. So it was just an opportunity for them to come along and it was just to give that positive kind of experience for parents and children in the area that something they wouldn't have an opportunity to do before because going for a stadium tour is expensive, going to play a football training pitch is expensive as well. So lucky I've got the links for Stoke and it helps that I used to work there and stuff, but they want to be a big community club and get involved with the community as well. And always have been as well, yeah. Yeah, so it's it's very nice to see. So yeah, the first time we did it just before Christmas, we sold out and could have sold out. Well, we actually it meant to be 15 adults, 15 children originally, and then we sold out within like 20 minutes of being live, so we extended to 30, and then so they did like an hour and a half playing football together where the parents play with the children at the same time, so they're doing like different challenges and different competitions and penalty shoot ups against each other, which is quite entertaining. I got to kick the ball at my own son and save his penalty. It was great. Character building is great. So then they had a stadium tour of the stadium, so that was massive for some people because it was they support Stoke and they go every week and watch. But getting to go and sit with the players, get changed, and walk out of the tunnel and sit in the dugouts and see the behind the scenes. The feedback we got was amazing. Then we had people asking if we're going to do it again. So we did it again at Easter. And then I've already got people asking again, we're going to do it again. So it's like well, we'll keep doing it. And Stoker really behind us with it. They want to keep doing it and stuff as well. So they're plugging what we're doing as well. Hey mate, you never know. One day, big Tony Pulis could be coming down to a headspace session, mate. He loves the media now. He's got his own podcast. Tony, Tony, if you're listening, mate, Tony, calm down. Mate, I used to drive his car, I got it. Wash for it, it's been do you know what I love? Do you know what it went viral? Do you know a few years ago when Tony was on match of the day and he did that laugh and he went and it went viral everywhere? I love that so much, man. Yeah, big T poo. We'll manifest it. Tony, come down to Headspace session, mate. Let's reflect now, mate. First of all, what's been your proudest achievement running Headspace FC so far? Um, I think just the fact the number of people that have got involved and the fact it's still going, really, because it wasn't meant to be what it was, but it's gone how it's gone. So I think that's probably the proudest thing is that really the fact it's just brought so many people together and it's still we're starting to build matches every day that want to come and join us and stuff. So yeah, that's the biggest thing, I think, really. And second of all, what goals and ambitions have you got for it in the future? So you mentioned off air you wanted to organise a group of charity games, is that right? Anything else? Yeah, so we've actually got our first charity match uh on the 24th of May at Stoke, as we're doing on the Stoke pitch. So we're doing that for charity. We think we've raised about £2,000 as well. We're in contact with some other clubs around and some other groups around the country who've offered or have asked about joining us at some point and playing games together as well. So we want to try and do that side of thing. At the minute, it's just carry on doing what we are and maybe expand some of the sessions. You can't do three more than three days a week and stuff as well. I don't think some of the lads could play more than three days a week either. So, but yeah, I think at the minute it's just to keep seeing where we go with it and keep supporting people. We do social nights as well, so we want to try and organise more of that. And we have said about doing more things that are outside of the football pitch sort of stuff and bring people together to do activities and events and things that way. So yeah, we'll see where it goes. It might be a women's session as well and things as well, because we've got a couple of minutes that are involved as well. And finally, before we move on, what has running it so far taught you about yourself? Um I can do something if I've got my mind to it. I can really achieve something that I didn't expect would happen. And the fact that I think it's more that I can't go with it and develop stuff, and I'm more capable of what I've thought. The fact that I've learned how to build a website, I've learned how to contact people, I've sat and spoke to an MP yesterday and things. So that sort of confidence for me that way, even though I've come across quite chatty on here. I'm not I'm not quite a shy person who just does what whatever. It's given me the confidence to do different things as well. We've talked about the brilliant work of Headspace FC. Let's go deeper and talk about your own mental health journey, Kenny. So I ask all my special guests on this topic this question first to meet back to early life in Stoke, teenage years, and looking back, were there any early mental health experiences? If any, who's the Kenny? We meet here. Yeah, so growing up, I grew up in a place called Yarnfield Little Village, just outside of Stone, just outside of Stoke. Yeah, very quiet little village. Became the antisocial behaviour order, capital of the country at one point. That was entertaining a couple of years, but yeah, it's it's a really nice place though. I grew up at home with two brothers, mum, single parent, working about 10 jobs to keep us afloat, and seeing my mum eating tomato sandwiches while we had food. Yeah, we were statistically, I think I should be one of those who fail because it's uh cancelled our single parent. That's how I think, but I've kind of gone against that, hopefully. But yeah, growing up, so my biological dad left when I was two and a half, three, so didn't really have that father figure there. My mum remarried, my man is about four or five, and then he left when I was in year seven. I didn't see him at the minute. So it's it's I've not seen him for about ten, twelve years. But in close contact with my biological grandparents still, and my biological dad said he died last year. Uh he was came back on our lives briefly once we had kids, but yeah, growing up it was that side of thing. It was we're all together, we were a close-knit family. Me and my brothers are always doing everything together. Mum was a big part of the community, a big part of what we were doing as well. Mental health side, really, for myself, I think it's probably more teenage years. I started diving into it a bit more. It probably all started starting around football, sort of thing, and getting upset around football. I remember getting I think playing for the high school team, and we made it to the finals of the country cup, and I got dropped for one of the things for someone else who hadn't played in it. I was feeling very down with it and had a conversation with my mum about it and crying for no reason. It was like, well, that's just what it is, it's it's playing on your mind, that side of thing, and a bit of anxiety around there. So, like I said before, I was always the shy, quiet person that my grandparents always say to my kids, who your dad was always a quiet one, and it's like, well, yeah, because I just didn't like speaking to people, and then I still do it now. If I don't like someone, I won't talk to you. So it's I've taken this upon as a compliment, then, mate. But yeah, it's one of them sort of things. I think growing up to that side with things, and then obviously, yeah, teenage years, and then it was really college is straight into work, however, college went straight into coaching at Stoke. Yeah, £50 a week, it was great. So, but yeah, that was how my journey was with growing up. It was a great childhood, great memories. Mum did everything we could with us, mum and a partner and stuff, so I was really close with this with the partner, and we even worked for him at one point. Yeah, was doing so well. So, yeah, we had really good links that way. And growing up in the village was nice because we kind of knew everyone, we still know everyone that's in the village in the way, but we had really good links that way as well. So we always had that kind of support network between ourselves, and the fact mum was a big part of the community and ran several jobs that were big community jobs as well. That she was known by everyone, and we were known by everyone, was that family, so it's it was they all come and supported us in any way we needed and stuff. I imagine there wasn't a lot of opportunities around you growing up jobs-wise. So the fact that you landed your dream job essentially, your boyhood club, although it was £50 a week, it still must have felt like a massive achievement. How much pride did you have as a kid? How much pride did your mum have? And then how did you kind of develop as a coach from that point onwards? Yeah, so I think because I had a work experience with Stoke when I was at college. So one of the lads who was working there, he played football for our team. So he kind of helped me get the role, get the job. So it was the old YTS scheme where it was £50 a week and you were working several thousand hours a week. It was great, but it was just the fact that you were part of a football club, and those days you were in with the players, you were doing stuff with the old players, so it was that kind of it was really proud of me. The fact that I'd gone from playing football at different levels and stuff to now coaching kids at different levels, and even now I I've seen some of the kids I used to coach that are playing professional football, and it's like it's when I was playing the World Cup and all that sort of stuff, it's it's crazy to think that I started that when I was 17, 18, and it's now that's how I think mum was a big person who pushed us for it, and it was like, Well, go for it, go coaching. I got loads of experience from it, so I think I got to that level two badge by the time I was nearly 20. So the first couple of years I passed both the first two badges. Mum paid for me and my younger brother both to the level three, so they do A for B, which meant you can go like professional teams and that's how it's why I've passed mine. My brother was too young to pass it, the year told, so he took his money but then pass him. So that's how things. But I was really proud to do that, coaching that, so I did a bit of academy coaching as well, and the community side and things went to sign a good coach for a week for the Premier League and different experiences that way and meeting. That was a real eye opener, and one of the probably the best memories I've got of coaching was 200 kids who appeared on the pitch when they should have only been 20 that couldn't speak English but were the most engaged jordan ever, and some of the relationships we built with the coaches. I still speak to some of the guys we coached over there that they've changed their lives around from what we did with coaching and things as well. You spend quite a few years at Stoke, and then you leave Stoke, we'll come back to you in a second, for the first time, and you join another football club in September 2007. I won't say which it is because of the reasons we'll go into, because for various reasons, you left after just three months in November. So, why was this experience quite difficult for you, in your words? I think taking the role of originally was a massive jump, a massive achievement as well. So my role at Stoke was I was basically working casually, so I didn't have a so many full-time job, uh job came up at this other club, which was I was the first person in the country to do it. So we were teaching English and maths to children at a high school who were going to be excluded, but we're teaching them through football and using support that way. It transpired, it looked like originally that there was loads of stuff out there that was going to be supported. I went for the interview, I was the only person to make it through the whole process of the interview after 25 applicants went to school, the school were amazing, the school were brilliant, the staff there erase. It was just the fact that the club that I went to just I think looking back at it, I think in hindsight they didn't really plan it out properly. There was someone above me who had all these big dreams, big aspirations. He since left that club for various reasons that I found out as well. But yeah, it was more I didn't have any sort of support. So the idea was I was meant to be teaching Monday to Thursday at the school. The Friday would be my day at the club to organise everything for the following week, do anything, coaching match with the club. When it was just with the club originally, because I'd had a week's child there first, it was really good. I'd enjoy the coaching side of things. Went to the school originally, it was really, really good, and then there was just no support from the club I was with originally, and they ran me up and said you need to come back to here every day. So I was already driving an hour out of home to go to the school every day. From the school to the club, it was another hour. So I'd be leaving the house at half past five in the morning to then be in the school till past four, go to the club until seven o'clock, eight o'clock, go home, crash out, and then do it again the next day. And there wasn't any real support there at all. I was planning all the last myself, I was told it'll all be provided for me to go with. I didn't have any teaching background then and stuff as well. The school provided what they could, but even to the fact that I had my own classroom, but there was nothing in there that was club based. It was I had no footballs, I had no posters, I had no equipment. I was borrowing it for the P department at the school, they were like, Yeah, just go for it and take what you want. It's like Saipan, the Republic of Ireland, isn't it? Like, yeah, it's great. And then I think after the first couple of weeks I was driving into the school, the hour drive is a long drive, it's down country lanes, it's down whatever. Not dreading going to the school, but just dreading like what was going to come after and things that way. So I'd go into the school and I was I'd literally sign in, run into the classroom, throw up in the sink just because of anxiety that I was facing at the time and stuff that way, because I didn't know why it was coming. The guy would just turn up on the spot as well when I announce he was coming as well, and I wasn't really doing my job because I was kind of ended up just being supporting at dinner times and going into English lessons in some sort of wasn't here to do. And it kind of all came to a head when uh there was one Friday where I went I finally organised to get my equipment off them and I had to go to the warehouse. So time before I sat now, so I was driving out an old clap felt Cleo that I had to pump the brakes to make sure it stopped. So it's driving around the area where it was. And the guy or a couple of the guys in the group thought it'd be quite funny instead of telling me to turn right out of the office to go where the warehouse was, they'd send me around the city centre. So after like two hours of driving around the city centre, I had no idea where I was, just trying to guess off road signs. I even rang a mate who worked at another club who was in the area and asked him where I had to go. I think I ended up just ringing up and said I'm going home. And I went off with depression for two weeks and sick, and they weren't very supportive then. I was getting phone calls and a bit of abuse off them saying, If I'm not going back, I need to send all this back, I need to do this back. So I think I went back for a day and then just left. So it's not just work waste bullying, but it's gaslighting as well. Yeah. Yeah. So and then the role ended up that three people took on that role instead, so they couldn't have one person do it. There was three people and I had to do that role together since then. Again, it's a life experience I've taken from it, and I think I've learned from it in many different ways and how to treat people and things that way as well. So it's and and not being taken for a ride as well, really, and standing up for yourself a little bit. I think I know when I got aimed to a mum, it's like, oh, you do know him was like, Oh, this happened and shot good on you. Even the right thing come out of it and stuff. Very much so, mate, very much so. At the same time, your mum has also been diagnosed with cervical cancer, and we'll talk about that in a little bit, mate. I mean, I don't know if they knew the context of that, but even if they didn't, it's even worse, and it's just a horrific experience what you went through. Because of that, they do say never go back in football, but you didn't listen, and shortly afterwards you go back to Stoke City. How did you feel walking back through those doors? Did it feel like a relief? Did you feel a bit of anxiety because people were going, hey, what are you doing back here? Yeah, no, I was actually on holiday my mum at the time as our last holiday together. So we were actually on Hardy, pressed out in Silver Places. So she always loved going there having stuff. And I had a phone call off the character because well, we just got promoted and we want to expand what we're doing, and we want you back in. Can you come back and come and start with us on Mondays or I'm on Hardy, but yeah, straight away. So it was like coming straight in. I went in as a senior coach as well. It was just nice to walk that first day back in, and it was people I knew, people I was comfortable with, people I knew the band with already, and knew I wasn't gonna be taken for a ride with straight away. So yeah, just going back in was a bit like home. I went in the other day actually to go pick some stuff up for him there that they donated for the charity event we're doing, and it's still some of the same old stuff there, and it's like it's been 14 years there in house. It's like a bit changed, it's great. So yeah, I just came back and it was nice, and then yeah, the role was what it was as well. So back to coaching full-time and doing that, and the opportunities I got that way was great. I want to fast forward again now because there comes a point where you need to get paid a bit more, you've done your UA for B licence, you're well established as a coach, but something happens, it involves your wife, where you make the transition into teaching. Just tell me about that transition, first of all, and also how your relationship with her developed through teaching. Because from my chat off air, you took her to Stoke City's Christmas party on your very first date. It was, yeah. Yeah, so we met on a night out in Stone. So yeah, she was a big Stoke fan. I had a spare ticket to the Christmas party because I brother couldn't go. Yeah, and she kind of self-abouted herself along at night. I was like, yeah, why not? But the listeners, just tell them what players were in that squad at the time, what big characters. So that was the day the days of TP. So Tony Pulis and Picardo Faller and Liam Lawrence and yeah, the all sticks, they uh they got promoted and stuff. So then them sort of players that were the old school, like proper stoke players that were before the big time players. So yeah. Yeah, yeah, big well, and Salif Diao and good core group of players who to be fair, that group of players who raised that we like Cole Dickinson's one of our ambassadors for Headspace, they were great lads, and just because you could have banter with them all the time and they're always having a laugh and a joke with you and stuff. But yeah, she invited herself to the party and she came along the next day, which is entertaining, and then uh we get sat on random tables as well because it's not just the community group, it's the whole club. So it's the players, the management team, the chairman, everyone. And sat down at a table and I'm sat with my boss, my line manager, chief executive. So it's like oh great. And I made the mistake going to the toilet as well and leaving her on her own for a minute. And then I think my boss turned around and said, How long you know Kenny for? Then he's like, Uh met him last night, yeah. So I got I got the stick. So the next day in the office was entertaining. But that was what 2009, and where we are now. So it's uh just just TP coming up to you with that laugh guy with his hat on. So yeah, that's how it all started, and then yeah, so yeah, I stayed coaching for a couple of years since then as well. And then I think it was 2012 when I left. But yeah, she was a teacher at high school. A teaching assistant job came up for the SDN department, and she thought, Oh, you're working like stupid hours. I would be in the office at seven in the morning, and I used to run the development centres that were like the ones for getting the lads ready for the academy. But they would be running until like eight, nine o'clock at night, you didn't get overtime pay, you got season tickets, so that was your bonus. So it's uh FA Cup final tickets and all that sort of stuff. So you have all the joys of that way. She did quite well for me. She's a free scene ticket, and she got five tickets for the semi-final as well. I'll go to She did alright there. Basically, she's uh Paris on residential, and this job came up and she's like, Oh, she was good at the same coach. My partner would be great for that, he wants to get out of coaching and get into teaching. And I hadn't even done a degree at that time either. So yeah, I I was looking at either leaving coaching to go to university or just try and find a route into schools in a way, and that came about. So I became a TA uh at the high school working with DC and kids. At the same time, though, I then decided to be crazy and do my degree at the same time. So I did a six-year open union degree in three years, so did a full-time degree as well as working full-time. Lucky we didn't have kids there. It was uh the Nathan came longest at the end of it. So it's so yeah, I worked there for a couple of years. She went off on maternity leave, and I was still there, and then yeah, doing I think three years because I did my degree, I left just before my end of my degree and went to school now as a teaching assistant, and then kind of snowball from there. I went and did schools direct, so on the job training, qualified as a teacher after the year, and then I was gonna apply for somewhere else in the school, like, well, we've got a job coming here. Can you apply here, please? So apply for the school there, and then yeah, now I've gone from TA to being assistant principal. Amazing, what a journey! Yeah, it's been a bit of a crazy journey, and yeah, looking back, it's been amazing what we've done, and yeah, I do quite a few other things. So I I run stuff for Apple Training Centre for Stoke as well, and I run that, and I'm one of the European innovators for Adobe as well, so we do all that as well. So it's on top of what we're doing and teaching and running everything else, but yeah, fucking back. It's a bit of a different journey than going to coaching football at 17, 18, but it's been good. Before we talk about grief, I've got a little bit about teaching as well for men as well, mate. There was a point early on in your teaching career where you get a mentor and you get a bit of imposter syndrome, you start to think that maybe I'm not good enough to be a teacher. Tell me back to that moment and the role that he played in giving you the confidence to overcome that fear and empowering you to be the great assistant principal you are today. Yeah, so I think when we was training, we had like a school mentor who she was basically the person I'd go to in school, and I wasn't overly supported by her. She took on two students at the time as well, so it was probably her role at the time, she had quite a busy role herself, and looking back at it and obviously on some of what I do now at the teaching profession. But yeah, I didn't have a great deal, and I always felt like I was always under pressure of being judged by what I was doing on NFA. I tried to justify why I had made a choice. I was always shot down and being told I was being rude or told and I was not listening. And it came to a point where, as well as that person in the school, we had someone that was part of the group, the people that lead the training who was like basically our link tutor. So he was one of the tutors of the group, but he was also the person we constantly came and watched us teach and things that way. And I've become really good friends with him. But I remember I went for a little meeting with him after one of the lessons he came to watch. The lesson went fine, but I just broke down and cried on him. So yeah, in the early 20s, sat crying, really stupid for crying on him, but it was like I needed that, I needed us to vent out a little bit and just let him know what was happening and the fact he was like, Well no, you're doing amazing what you do when you're doing this. That's you're like the only male, well, I think so I was the only male teacher in the in the school that was a full-time teacher, but even I was training. I was going through a lot as well. We just had our eldest as well, so my wife was going through a few issues herself as well. So we was kind of new dad, trying to get around life that way as well. We had our eldest, but my youngest middle one, my daughter was born the year I finished training, and so she was due to be born, and we had a few difficulties with her pregnancy and stuff that way as well, and things. So the kind of that side of stress was was there and things, and I kind of yeah, just the fact that John was there to me to talk to and bent with, he was really, really supportive, he's really pushed me ever since. He's always been the person that's pushed me for different things. Like even the stuff we're doing now with mental health, he's really helped with that. Like he's not by himself, he's an ass as well. So that's so, but he's still in the profession, he's still doing what we're doing and seeing all the time and talk to him all the time and stuff. So he's it's great to see what he's doing. So I'm a massive advocate for more men in primary school teaching, mate, and you are literally a shining example of that. Now, the figures for secondary school teaching uh are pretty bad as well, but in primary school teaching, they're even worse. How do we get, from your experience, more men into primary school teaching, remove the stigma because there is the stigma for men going into primary school teaching, and just give them the confidence to do it and say, actually, fuck everyone else. You're good enough to be a primary school teacher, you should feel confident to do it, and you can make a real difference. Because I hear from all the time from teaching friends or women who are in primary school teaching, and this is sometimes a bit of a sad reflection, but they say just a man coming into the school, the kids light up, they pay attention in a way that they don't sadly with other female teachers because there just isn't that many of them. Yeah, I think it's that side of the there isn't many male teachers. I think my own personal experience at the school and stuff, it's a lot of kids don't have that positive male role model either, so it's that kind of someone there to show them look we can't do this, we can't do that. Well, I've taken over a class now, or maybe teaching the ship, and I've taken over a class. But I know kids in that group who've have really taken to me because I am the only man they see. So it's that kind of relationship there, and all the the man they do see there'sn't isn't in a positive way either, and things and showing that side of things, even like girls in the classroom and stuff like that, saying that how you can be treated in different ways and stuff and things. But we're lucky now we've got three male teachers, including me. Amazing, mate. So we've got and we've got obviously caretakers, and we've got a creative guy as well, we've got a chaplain who's male, who's a good core of a male group now that people can come and talk to, so it's not all on me as well, which is nice. Yeah, just the fact that we've got people about it makes a difference and it's massively, mate. Yeah. Just having that confidence to go for it as well. I I looked at secondary and stuff as well, but it's like, well, I want to make an impact on people and set the kind of legacy for people as well and show what they can do. And I think my own background, like I've seen before, like um I would have been one of those kids in the classes now who are the people premium children who was on free school meals when mum was a single pair, and so statistically I should have been lost in the system and should have failed at everything because statistically them children are the one the disadvantaged children don't always get the grades and stuff. Whereas I didn't get amazing GCSCs, I got I think three B's and four C's, but I got them and I've pushed myself to where we are now, and it's like, Well, look where you can go if you can do it. Not that I'm bigging myself up that way, but it's more like Well, there's an opportunity that if you work hard and you try hard and you can achieve stuff as well. I think as well, mate, just speaking from my experience, I feel like with boys, we remember the positive male teacher in primary school more than the secondary school teacher. I don't know why that is, but I feel like we do. Like I certainly do. I know a lot of my mates certainly do, in a way that I think maybe because secondary school becomes a quite a blur and you're just trying to survive most of the time for most people, anyway. Do you feel that way as well? Yeah, definitely. I think that they're always the ones that we have kids that come back all the time to pick up their own brothers and sisters or their own kids. 30 year olds calling you sir and all that, yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. It's like, oh, see him, they always they always want to come to your door and come talk to you. And like we see him out. We were out last night, I saw one of the kids out last night as well. And it's like, oh yeah. But yeah, there's something that kind of it's nice to see though that they think you'd be that way and stuff. Like it's the respect, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it's a respect, and the fact that they see you as someone they can look up to and come talk to you about anything as well. There's some of the stuff we get told is not nice for some of the kids to go through and stuff as well. But the fact they feel that they can open up about anything, get told loads of random stuff as well. The random questions, especially teaching you two now out, the random questions you get is it's amazing. I want to talk now to go from a positive to a negative, sadly, which is grief. And you've gone through several major griefs, obviously your cousin's death, as we said, but also your mum, which we're going to talk about first. And she died in 2008 from cervical cancer. You were only 22 years old at the time. This was at the time, as you said, you were working at that aforementioned unnamed club. Before we discussed the cancer and the grief, you said a little bit about her already, but just tell me what her name was, the person she was, and your relationship with her. Yeah, so my mum was called Deborah Harrison or Debbie known as Debs. Yeah. Became a bit of a pillar of the community. I'm not saying like she was my mum, but she was. She worked on the shop in the mornings in the village. She was then lady at the primary school. She ran the social school club as well, it was in the village. She was everywhere. Yeah, she she used to go clean people's houses for um any job she could do, she could do. She was doing that all the time. She then left the primary school stuff in the village, and she became one of the first high-level teaching assistants in the county. Went to high school in Stone, and she had a massive impact on everyone's life there. So the fact that her funeral that like nearly 300 kids turned up. Wow. And people still talk about her, and I was like, Oh, yeah, what your mum was like she was helping kids who were gonna not get a job and get excluded for life, and one of them's got his own butchers, one's like got people in like mechanics and got really decent jobs because they were kind of she stayed on that right path and stuff that way. But yeah, she was not just because we she was a mum, she's probably the best person you could probably look up to and want things as well because she'd help anyone she could, not just us, she'd many other kids we'd have in our house that she'd charm in and look after and help in different ways that she could. And it's like a foster home at the same time, mate. We used to come in from school, we had a couple of different people that she used to look after and help out and things. It is Tracy Baker. It's great, mate. Like that back of growing it was like Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What are your favourite memories of her and your time together, mate? Um, I think just she was just one of these stupid characters that made us all laugh. We've got pictures of her wearing gobbles and putting things up on nose and us doing stupid things that just make us all laugh and stuff that way, and like the fact that she never took herself over very seriously, but she was always there for us as well. Like, she was like her best mate in a way, like she'd have a laugh and a joke, she'd always be there, and support us and shows where we were, and just having days out with her and spending time with her was the best thing we could do anyway. Even when we had the diagnosis that she had cancer and stuff, we still live life as much as we could. So she got diagnosed in 2007 plus 2006. We got told it had gone. We shot offered the check-up after six months and it had come back more aggressive, so it couldn't be operated on at all either. So where it was, it was against the main artery and a leg as well. So the only place in the operation was Japan, and it was like a 20% survival rate, so it's like, oh, she had all the chemo and all the radiotherapy she could have. But even doing that side of things, found that a laugh and a joke as well. So we'd like to sit in the chemo with and she was just laughing with all the nurses, and we'd be sat there and she'd be trying to partner us up with them to even to the point where my older brother's wife is one of my mum's nurses. So she met her and stopped in the hospital. Hey, keep it in. Yeah, that side of thing. It was really nice to see that way, and we spent many time with her and doing things. Obviously, my wife never properly met her, but she did in a weird way. So my wife had to do one of her placements at the school my mum was working at, and had to go into the room my mum was working in as well. So she would have met her at some point as well that way. So it's strange things happen in different circles and stuff. And Mum was always one that always pushed me to do things. I should have listened to her earlier about going to teaching. She was always like, Well, you'd be a good teacher, you do this and stuff, and uh glad I kind of did in a way and now we've done what I'm doing and stuff. But yeah, she's always been someone that we've always looked up to and we've always wanted to kind of if it could be half the person she was, we'd be happy. Just like the legacy we've got with her and stuff, and the fact we know it's I've always said to people like like I said before, the heads with stuff it's not about me, it's about other people. I want to do it for other people, I'm not doing it for me, and I think that's coming from our wouldn't bring her mum, it's she was always there for everyone else. And yeah, kind of that sort of thing. Well, once you've gone, what have you left? What stamp have you left on the board? How have you helped someone else out? Not in a big-headed way, but what's been your role in supporting someone else? How have you made a difference? Were you with her at the end? Did you get that chance? Um yeah, so we were and we weren't. So she was in the Dougie Mac Council Hospice, which is in Stoke. I was working at Stoke at the time, and Stoke were great. They were like, Well, take whatever time you need. So I remember we had a phone call since she had gone really ill, and she was moving into the Duggy Mac, so she was at home for a bit. We lived in the Duggy Mac with her, so Dougie Mac covers a room opposite hers. So we were on camp beds and taking a turn, staying able for most of the days there, we'd go home and do bits and pubs and stuff. And she was like, Well, she was quite adamant that like you need to start getting the house ready for yourselves, you need to decorate it yourselves, do this yourself and stuff. We knew she wasn't gonna come home. But on the day she died, she actually sent us home. She told us to go. She couldn't really speak. We were feeding her on a sponge because she couldn't drink, she couldn't eat, she was on drip, she had cost me bags we had to empty for her and stuff, which she found quite entertaining. She used to try and squirt us with them. So there we go. Yeah, she used to find that quite funny and stuff. I thought, yeah. That's some football dressing room pranks if I've ever heard them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's where we're all getting from. Yeah, so that morning she sent us home and we kind of in a way new, so we kind of just potted around the house and did a few things around the house, me and my brothers. And then we got the phone call. I think it was just after dinner. She'd taken a turn for the worst. We need to get over there. And when we got there, she had already passed, but she was with the nurses that were there, and I think my nans was there as well at the time. Yeah, it was it was hard seeing that she'd gone. And I'm always gonna remember that side of seeing that side, but um we had to sit with her and just hold her and things was nice as well. So yeah, that's the kind of last time I saw her. When did you find peace but not closure with your mum's death? I think in a way it was probably the funeral. So my brothers went to see her in the chapel of rest died, didn't because I went to remember as as she was, not as a figure in a box and stuff that way. So I think the funeral kind of made peace about her. It was horrible, it was really hard um to go through, but just kind of letting that emotion side out and being able to talk to people that were there, so family, friends, other people that knew mom from different areas and stuff, and just knew she'd pass, but she's never really gone, she's still here. So as long as people talk about her, mate, or square glostomy bags at everyone. Yeah, we've got those little stupid little things that my daughter's got her as a middle name, but um, my kids are never obviously met, never ever met her, but know loads about her, but even stuff out where I'm at she used to have a look, you know, the old blue Nokia 3310s like a brick you could throw and like kill birds with it. Stuff we thought they hit the floor and it'd like to take the floor. I'm not avocado for killing birds with Nokia 3210s on this podcast, please, before I get in trouble with the R RSBB. But she used to have that, and we for some reason I've kept it, it's got no battery or anything like that. And my daughter found it when she was pretty young because like give the kids toy phones and stuff. She still plays it now, she's 10 years old, and she carries her phone everywhere with her and stuff, and it's like it's them little so little things like that, it's how well she's always here with us, and things like white butterflies you see one of them, and the kids know that nine coming to visit and stuff and things that way. So we have like little things that we say and do, and yeah, we always kind of know she's there and know she's watching down or wherever she is or whatever she is, so it's she's always been a part of us and stuff, and like sort of the the stuff we're doing now, like the teaching and the mental health side of stuff, she's always kind of there in the back of my mind of guiding what mum says, what mum do. It's been 18 years since your mum's death, mate, and you've achieved so much in your life. You become a dad, you become assistant head teacher, you're a really great positive male role model in your community and for your kids as well. If she was listening to this podcast, I'm sure she is somewhere, in a butterfly, what would you say to her and what do you think she would say to you? Um it would just be a massive thank you to her, really, for making me the person I am. Um yeah, really, that's oh I'm here because of her and what she's done and the guidance she gave me, really. Um and I hope she'd be saying probably take the mech out of me at some point and laugh at me for something and laughing because the kids are terrorising us all the time and stuff for actually quiet this morning. TV's on. But yeah, it's uh I think she'll just be kind of proud of what we're doing and more like a told yourself sort of thing as well. Like and you could do that and stuff, so that's the kind of relationship we always have. Yeah, I think she'd be proud of what we've done and what we've achieved, and not just me, but both my brothers as well. How we've we've got kids, we've got lives, we've carried on doing what we're doing. Yeah. My mum was one of seven, but we don't really have a great contact with them anymore. One of them lives in Manchester, one lives in Derby and other areas and stuff, but yeah, I know I can text her if I needed to and stuff that way, but our relationship that way kind of dwend up a little bit because we've gone forward and things that way as life's carries on, but I know she'd always be an advocate of what we were doing and stuff, and just started to look after us hours and she'd be proud of what we're doing that way as well. Ten years later, in 2018, cancer struck your life again when your best friend Dean died from it at the age of just 32 years old, mate. The age that I am now is really scary. Similar question as before. What person was he? What was your relationship like with him from childhood, adolescence to adulthood? So I first met Dean when I was 16. We were both playing for Stafford Rangers, so he was the goalkeeper, I was sub. So I was always there. But he was also a coach, so he was working casually at Stoke as I was doing my ITS. And then me and him, he kind of became my line manager at Stoke. He got a role where me and him were based at schools around like Rugeley, Litchfield, that sort of area. We ran the satellite centre for Stoke and we became really close to them, we became really close friends. Our friendship wasn't that we were in each other's pockets, it was the fact that if he wanted to ring me for Annetton, I'd be there, and if I wanted to ring him for Anton, we'd be there. There were other people that were friends that since shown they weren't, they were always on top of him and things that way, but once he got ill, they weren't. Hangers on, mate, the worst. Yeah, we had a few issues, so unfortunately the cancer seemed to strike at the time when he got basically there was an accusation against him. Nothing came of it, he got thrown out of court. Right. The stress of that triggered what he went through because he he always had the slump in his arm when he was a kid, and it was always benign, it was always nothing that somebody had some lot of treatment for it, and it kind of triggered both ends that way at the same sort of time. So we always think, and speaking to his wife and stuff as well, it always kind of was some sort of trigger where it made it the stress, and your body carries through different stress hormones, don't it, and then your system gets attacked and things that way with it. It kind of triggered the same time then. So we're not too sure if that was what brought it on or not. But unfortunately, when that happened, he wasn't allowed to work because of the accusation, so we had to leave coaching altogether. I took his role on. People were told people weren't allowed to speak to him, but I ignored that because he was my mate and he needs that support and stuff. So he moved out of the area, moved to Manchester when I was stoked. As he did that, he met his wife as well. So he met a girl he was working with there, she was amazing for him. But yeah, Dean was it's the same sort of the football banter we always had, he was always taking mick out of me for being a Sheffield Wednesday fan, and I'd take the mick out of him for being my United fan. Yeah, and then we just have that kind of laugh and a joke about different things. He'd just send me a text us, call me a stupid name or something, and that'd be it. If I or take the mick out of something, or I don't know, if I my mum was going through uh illness and stuff and things, he was there. We didn't go out a night out and sleep on our couch, and my mum would wake him up at some point and some sort of stupid joke with him, always go sit on him or something, things that way and stuff. So yeah, we had that kind of bond where we kind of always knew each other there for each other. Even when he was ill, I would make sure if I had a day off, I'd go up and go see him and things as well, and we'd go spend time together. And unfortunately when he was extremely ill, I didn't get the chance the day I was gonna go up, he had to go pushed into the hospital, and suddenly didn't come out. So yeah, he was Ace, he was the sort of person he always knew was gonna be there and have a laugh at a joke and things that way as well. Where were you when you found out he had died, mate? I was out with my kids, so we'd taken the kids to uh a place in Telford called Wonderland, so we'd actually gone for like a bit of a day out, and then I had a phone call off it wasn't his wife, it was I think it was his swindler, I'd seen it on social media because he was in Spain when he died. So basically his wife had taken him over to Spain for some treatment because she was Spanish, and suddenly he'd passed over there. He had some of the treatment and he'd passed, and we found out there then that day, and I think we were halfway round Wonderland walking and we thought we need to go home, we've got to go home, and just that was it. It was kind of yeah, like a punch in the stomach that you kind of expected it to be hit at some point, but not then, because we knew he was having some treatment. I'd I'd actually spoken to him the day before because I was talking to him about he was in Barcelona and we were just chatting about the Barcelona game and I think my last text was saying, Alright, talk to you tomorrow, mate, and obviously didn't get the chance. But yeah, it was a bit of it was nice to be out with the kids and have my mind busy that way, because obviously driving back as well, it's an hour's drive from where we were, but it was just the fact we could take that kind of time and just remember who he was and talk about him and have a chat. Given what had happened with your mum, which was a eventual decline, with Dean there was a decline, but it seems like the death was more of a shock to you initially. How did that affect your grief and your mental health versus your mum's grief, mate? Um yeah, I think honestly with mummy we kind of knew it was coming. She made sure we were preempted. But Dean, we knew it was going to come at some point. It was just You'd talking to him that day before that night. It was a shock, but it was kind of for me as well, it was also like the relief for him as well. It was like he's out of that pain because he was on a ventilator and he wasn't the person he was anymore as in physically and things himself in his own mind as well. It was a grief that had to be accept quite quick. With me, it was what I had for me home because obviously he died, there was no insurance, she had no money from him, so we tried to do what we could to support her straight away. And it was for me, I think the way I always deal with things is trying to be a bit proactive, and that helps my mind to kind of reset and just go, and it helps me remember things in different ways. And given you spoke about that final conversation, has that made you more grateful for the people in your life? Has it made you more aware of how short life is and maybe having those conversations with people, not just in case they die unexpectedly, but just the importance of you know, saying I love you to a family member when you see them, or if you've got something to say to someone, you make sure you say it. Yeah, definitely. I think I've always yeah, especially since then as well, it's more like just send someone a message and say hi, how are you, or that sort of thing. And I think that's been way really good with the football side of the headspace sort of thing has been that we've got that check in, and I think because I do it quite regularly, everyone else does it as well and things as well, but just having that kind of life is too short and I'm known for not holding grudges as well. So if someone says something, say what? Just move on and don't need to be in your life, don't have me in life. If you've needed me in your life, have me in your life, it's one of them, and don't take things for granted and let people move on. And even like with my own family and stuff, I've open doors and the doors always open for people to come in and we know where we are. But I don't go out my own way sometimes if they're not making an effort for that side of things as well. So it's but if it's someone that I I really want to talk to, I will talk to them. Like I said before, they've made that effort, and it is important that you always do reach out to people and just check in and stuff that way, not just for seeing how they are, but also for your own well-being as well, because sometimes it's just that conversation you it might start at something little as hi are you, or do you want to go for a drink or whatever, and then it opens up other things that you might start talking about yourself and you don't realise yourself that you need to talk about sometimes. And if you had had the chance to have that final conversation with Dean, mate, what would you have said to him? Well, again, I think thank you for helping guy me. He knows been there for me and being a big advocate of whatever I do. Again, he's a had a big role, big part in my confidence being developed and stuff that way. So just seeing me and him coaching together was a big thing. We used to push each other to do as much as we could and be as high up as we could with what we're doing and stuff, and that kind of challenge for each other's was it was because he was there and we were there. Yeah, really a massive thank you. Let's reflect on your mental health journey now. So, first of all, similar question as the first topic what has this mental health journey taught you about yourself? Um again, I think it's that it's good to reflect, it's good to look back on what you're doing, it's good to see where you've come from, what you've gone, where you've gone as well. And about myself, really, it's more that it's okay to open up, it's okay to be the shy kid or be the shy person and still have the confidence to do something different. And as a final question before we move on to our quick fire mental health chat, if you could go back and talk to the 18-year-old Kenny who had just joined Stoke City for the first time, the 22-year-old Kenny who had just lost his mum to cervical cancer, or the 32-year-old Kenny who had just lost his best friend Dean, what would you say to him, knowing what you do now, if anything at all, mate? I think it'd just be just grasp everything you can, go for it, don't be scared. Life does move on and it moves at a fast pace, and blinking you mess it and just enjoy it and take the time to enjoy every moment and live each moment as it comes, don't worry about anything that's there. I know that sort of thing amounts my wife because she's the one of the ones that is a big worry about everything and I just don't worry about anything, it's just cross that bridge as it comes to it, don't worry about it. Why worry about it now? If there's something to worry about, we can't change it. So, yeah, I think it's one of them. Enjoy your life, live your life, and make friends, make the most out of everything you can, live each day as it comes. Our final topic of conversation, Kenny, it's one I try and have with all of my special guests if we have time. It is a general Natter and quick fire chat about our mental health. So, firstly, how was your mental health out of 10, mate? Probably say a good nine, ten at the minute. I think it's everything's there, it's going quite well, and yeah, not bad at the minute. Excellent. What age were you when you became self-aware of your mental health for the first time and you realised that the feelings you were having weren't physical and they were actually in your mind? Uh I'd probably say about 13, 14. And was it a Eureka moment or a gradual process? I think it's that gradual process of that conversation that it's okay to feel that way and let things out. And can you remember the first or the most important conversation you ever had with someone about your mental health? So who is it with? What did you say, and how do you look back on it? Did it feel like the big moment and stereotypical weight had been lifted, or on the other, something quite easy, natural, and normal to do? I think the first conversation was 12:30, 14 was with my mum about why I felt a certain way about I was again upset over something that it was something as little as being dropped from a football team. So it's that kind of stress, and it yeah, the conversation was it's fine to feel like that, it's just the anxiety you've got around it and that sort of things. And we had that conversation, and then that's been built on and understood. And what things do you find in life, mate, if any, that trigger your mental health? So it could be things people say to you, sound, smell, taste, sensation, or have you not figured all of them out yet? I think it's a bit of a mixture of all sorts, really. I think it could be just the day in general, how you wake up sometimes. Sometimes it can be a song I hear on the radio, sometimes it can be an experience as well, sometimes it can just be seeing the fact that my kids are doing something that I remember doing when I was younger with my own mum, and that can set something off that way as well. Or it could be just the stress of work and life and everything else can be there sometimes and can trigger things as well. And what conversely positive tools and methods do you use to improve your mental health or help you feel better? Which ones have worked for you, and maybe which ones that you've tried but haven't worked? Ones that seem to work all the time for me. I've always been a big advocate of music and just listening to music. I went to a gig last night. I went wrestling last night, wasn't it different? Yeah, so I've got loads of players on a Spotify random music choice. I've got musicals and then I've got hard rock, so Iron Maiden and then Yeah, Book of Mormon. It's a bit different. Yeah, different things that way. Even just sitting and taking time as well and just not doing anything, it's helpful. But also like the ad hour, I grew up in a village where the farmers behind a house, so it was always nice to see outside and look outside and stare through the window and things. And last year we've moved and we've now got a view with it, which we've got I can nearly have 360 view of the countryside of Stoke on Trent for looking at different areas. It's quite nice that even though we're in the city, we can still see fields and cows and hear owls and watch foxes fight in the garden and stuff. So yeah, fight in very common there for those foxes, yeah, yeah. What is the best book, or as I call it, mental health Bible you've read for your mental health? Now it can be self-help or mental health related, it doesn't have to be, it can be fiction, anything you want. There's probably two. I can't remember the first one's called. I read it, but it's by Matthew's side, it was looking into like black box thinking? Yeah, no, it's another one, I can't remember. It wasn't it was it more about like coaching side of thing, and it's about like talent there or not. Is it learn or not? So it was that side of things, but it was talking about the mental side of yeah, you can have all the talent in the world and you can have all the training in the world, but unless you've got The myth of talent is it called Bounce, the myth of talent? Yeah, that's the one bounce. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that one. So I came across that when I was doing your way for B. We were talking to one of the trainers at the time. That's always stuck with me like about the ten thousand hours of how long it takes to do something. I'm getting there with a bump, mate. Yeah, but you're still never truly a master, and the Bruce Lee sayings that are in there and stuff and things, and the fact that Matthew Silver is a tail tennis player and he learned that way. And then the other one really is it's by Andy Cope, the art of being brilliant. So he does a lot of the education stuff as well. And we've had him do internet days for us and things, but the little tweakers in there, like about waking up and being grateful, yeah, I've got a toothache. It's this really stupid little thing, but yeah, you've made another day, you've got a what's the worst that's gonna happen, and that sort of thing, and I've taken a lot of that on in my own life as well. If there was a mantra in life that summed up your mental health, what would it be and why? Um for me I think it's probably just go live it. Live it and attack everything as you can. I know you're gonna struggle with this question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway, because I want a proper answer. What do you love about yourself? Um just that I am who I am and I think I show that you can achieve what you can do, and don't matter what your background is, where you've come from, what adversity you've faced in any certain way, you can still achieve different things, and yeah, I think I'm quite proud of myself that way that I've pushed myself in different ways and don't really do the big up of myself and stuff that way, really. But it's just nice to see that what I'm but yeah, what I like about myself is that I'm helping other people and making a difference and hopefully leaving some sort of legacy for people to be part of as well. Give me two character traits at least. Uh that I can have a laugh and a joke, so I've got a bit of a sense of humour that helps me out and probably gets me through a lot of stuff in my life. I would like to say I'm supportive of people. Nice. Well done. There we go. Well done, mate. Past it. Just about. We'll work on it, mate. If you come back on for a part two, I'm gonna ask you again. I've got one final question left, mate. You can answer it any way you want. What more do you think we have to do to ensure men from all backgrounds, all social classes, all walks of life feel comfortable and safe in opening up about their mental health issues or just their general mental health, if most importantly, they want to do it? I think it's kind of what we're already trying to do is just building that community. It doesn't have to be about a one size fits all. Some people like to go sit around a table and talk, some people don't. Some people like to walk through a pop door and do it that way, some like to go and run around a football pitch. But it's the fact that from what we've done from Pedspace and stuff is we're building that connected community where you've got these options to go. Whether it's so we've got walking groups we're linked with, we've got social groups we're linked with, we've got other things that way. So it's just I think for the mental health side, especially with men, it's just providing that opportunity that there's more to just one size fits all and just one. One size fits one. Yeah. So it's yeah, let everyone take it as they need it and give them that safe space and and and that time. And I think I saw a post with a day of stop posting out pictures of this is good for your mental health, this is good for your mental health, because it's for everyone and yeah, it's nice for social media, but it doesn't mean anything. It's making sure you are there for people and making sure if someone does reach out, you take the time to get to know them as well. And I think thankfully we're the group we've got, we are that sort of group, and I think that's why we've worked so well. If we've got the 200 members we've got, we're not saying everyone's got a mental health issue in the group. We don't even say you have to have a mental health issue to be part of us. We just want to look after your mental health is in. Come meet some new people, come have a social group that you didn't have before. Because you never know who you're gonna meet, you never know who you're gonna talk to, and the impact you might have on someone else's life as well. Could be massive just being there for someone to listen to for a minute, you don't have to do work miracles, you could just be that you are that landing here, or you are that like I'm saying before, you are that 18-year-old's first parent figure that they had for a long time. Well, you could be the 18-year-old, it's the 60-year-old's first grandchild figure as well. Kenny, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on the Just Check In podcast and talking to me, brother. No, thank you, mate. It's been a pleasure. Well, that's all we've got time for on this episode of the Just Check In pod. A big thank you to Kenny for being my special guest and for letting me check in with him. I'll put some links to where you can find out more about all the incredible work Headspace FC C I C does and follow them on social media in the show notes. As always, thank you to all the vendors who've tuned in to this episode. Remember, if you've liked what you've heard, please give it a share on social media by tagging us at VentsHelp UK or one word. Tell your friends, family, or work colleagues about us. If you're feeling generous, please do write us a review and give us a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. If you want to support us further, go to patreon.com slash eventhelpuk or make a one-off donation to our PayPal. All of those links are on our link tree. That's linktr.ee slash vents helpuk. We hope to check in with you again very soon. And remember, guys, it is always okay to vent.
